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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Aussie Shermans?
ThomasB
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Skåne, Sweden
Joined: May 17, 2002
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 08:48 AM UTC
Just wondering if Australia used Shermans during WW2, and if they did what version, and how it would be marked

And since I'm still building my reference library I would be thankful for sources of info.
BobCard
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Florida, United States
Joined: August 09, 2006
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 09:01 AM UTC
I don't think so, If i remember correctly they only got up to the testing stage, but of course I could be wrong.
Search for Sherman Tank only brings up the photos of the test subject and a couple of English reference photos.
Australian War Memorial Collection
Hopefully someone else might know more.
Bob
NormSon
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: December 17, 2006
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 09:14 AM UTC
Google "Australian Shermans". Go to www.anzacsteel.hobbyvista.com. They have photos and the testing information of the Shermans that were sent to Australia. Apparently, they weren't very impressed, and they went no further.
Norm Samuelson
jjumbo
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 09:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Google "Australian Shermans". Go to www.anzacsteel.hobbyvista.com. They have photos and the testing information of the Shermans that were sent to Australia. Apparently, they weren't very impressed, and they went no further.
Norm Samuelson



Hey guys,
Here's the page in question:
http://anzacsteel.hobbyvista.com/Armoured%20Vehicles/shermansdownunderph_1.htm

Looks like the Aussies preferred British tanks like the Matilda, Crusader and Churchill over their American counterparts like the M4 Sherman,
On the otherhand, the New Zealand troops in Europe used Shermans that were supplied from the British supply pool.
Cheers

jjumbo
ALBOWIE
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: February 28, 2006
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 10:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Just wondering if Australia used Shermans during WW2, and if they did what version, and how it would be marked

And since I'm still building my reference library I would be thankful for sources of info.



Australia trialled three Sherman Tanks when looking to replace its Matildas and M3 Mediums for use in the war against Japan. The vehicles trialled were:

M4 Composite with High Bustle Turret
M4 Welded
M4A2 with cast hoods and Low Bustle Turret

The three of these were trialled in Jungle conditions in New Guinea against the British Churchill (A Mk IV was trialled). The Sherman was found to have many deficiencies as an infantry support tank which is what Australia needed at that time and the Churchill was selected to replace the ageing matildas.
The end of the war saw Australias order of Churchills cut back to approximately 10% of the original order. 1 in 4 was a Crocodile (including CS Variants, further indicating the Infantry support role of these vehicles. They were found to have poor armour and cross country ability compared to the Churchill. The Diesel variant also suffeered overheating due to continued low gear running. Australia was looking at the British Comet to replace the medium M3 in the "Cruiser" role but doctrine changed and Australia eventually ordered Centurions (Early 50s) to replace the Churchills and M3's & Matildas which were serving in the CMF units with National Service Crews. The CMF then lost their Tank units with the last 1/15 RNSWL losing their role in the 70's. The CMF armour units re equipped as APC or Recon cavalry with 113 or wheeled types (Staghound, Ferret, M3 White SC were used alongside some Saracen).
Two of the original Shermans still exist (M4A2 and the Composite). The composite looks a bit the worse for wear having been used as a mobile small arms target. They are both on display at the RAAC Museum in Puckapunyal.
Cheers
AL
ALBOWIE
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New South Wales, Australia
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 10:12 AM UTC
It wasn't a matter of preference. It was a matter of what was available. Australia struggled to get modern armour from either the US or UK and took what it could get. Australia used over 700 US M3 Mediums and approx the same amount of M3 Light. We trialled ONE crusader and an early Cromwell. By the time the Sherman was made available to Australia the 75mm variants were no longer in production (only 105 and 76mm) and the Churchill was available. Australia planned to equip its Armd Regts with Churchills with Crocodiles for the invasion of Japan. The heavy Armour and good HE performance of both the 75 and 95mm variants with the added insurance of the flamethrowers would have made this the ultimate infantry support tank against the Japs. I'm sure the Marines on Iwo would have agreed as the Mk VII/VIII would have been immune to the jap 47mm AT gun.
The Matildas were used in the infantry support role and were highly successful, unlike the M3 light before it, in that role.
NZ used the valentine in the SWPA as they couldn't get Shermans in the Pacific. They used Shermans in Italy for commonality with the British and Commonwealth Formations.
Cheers
Al
ThomasB
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Skåne, Sweden
Joined: May 17, 2002
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 10:41 AM UTC
Ok, looks like that project is never going to happen. But thanks for the info everyone. Have to look for a new different Sherman project. Have heard some rumor that the Swedish army had one or two for trials...
jimbrae
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Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
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Posted: Monday, October 29, 2007 - 08:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Have heard some rumor that the Swedish army had one or two for trials...



I heard a similar rumor that the Spanish Army were given a few for trials as well. Sadly, I doubt there is any foundation to this one. Be a nice 'theoretical' project though...
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