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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Quality is actually BETTER than Quantity...
jimbrae
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Provincia de Lugo, Spain / Espaņa
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Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 03:10 AM UTC
The last few months have seen some pretty damned impressive releases for the Allied modeler. I guess i've been lucky in being able to get my hands on some of them before they've even been released and been able to look at them in more detail - anything else i've been able to look at on sites like P.M.M.S. or, in the case of releases like the Studebaker Truck, WIPs like Grumpy's.

The conclusion i'm beginning to come to, is that i'm pretty happy at what i'm seeing. Yes, there remain crazy gaps, like a decent Churchill, lack of figures (in styrene) - all of us have our own pet theories

However, i'm utterly convinced, that i'd sooner see 5% of new releases coming up to the quality of the releases from AFV Club, Bronco and Tasca than seeing more (and less well-executed) kits.

It ain't perfect, but we're in a damn site better situation than we were 12 months ago. Less releases (compared to the Axis subjects) but, IMO, a lot of quality..

So keep it up - better two good M4s a year rather than 10 mediocre ones...
PantherF
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Indiana, United States
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Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 03:13 AM UTC
But isn't Quantity a Quality all on its own?


Jeff
ericadeane
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Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 03:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

But isn't Quantity a Quality all on its own?


Jeff

Tell that to all those guys with RPM Renault UEs, Tamiya M5 Light tanks, Tamiya M3 Lees, DML M4A1s sitting on their workshop shelves. LOL
Bodeen
#026
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Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 04:08 AM UTC
I have to say that I totally agree with Jim. I am very happy with the amount, as well as the quality, of the majority of kits being produced today.

I do believe, however, that less expensive / detailed kits also have their place in the market. Some of the olderTrumpeter kits...such as their series of Chinese tanks are not HORRIBLE and they are great for beginners and the price is right....you can get some of the old Trumpeter stuff for $12.00 US. They are great for beginners and people on fixed incomes. The older Tamiya stuff also fits this bill.

For those purists the Tasca, AFV Club, Tristar and newer Dragon stuff is perfect. I'll admit that I was put off by the price of the Tasca offerings when I first saw them, but after reading all of the glowing reviews and seeing photos of the built up models, I've changed my tune. In most cases in the wold of scale modelling you really do get what you pay for.

I tend to fluctuate in my purchases. I bought the Cyber-hobby DAK Tiger I and I also bought the ancient Tamiya British Lee (from e-bay).

Jeff

kevinb120
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Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 05:26 AM UTC
I still have yet to decide if the same theory applies to women

must continue my research....
Bodeen
#026
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Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 08:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I still have yet to decide if the same theory applies to women

must continue my research....


I guess it depends on if you're "serious" about the "hobby" or if you're just an OOB kind of guy.
If you're just playing around then QUANTITY is definitely better. If you're serious then Quality is the deciding factor. Just make sure if you get "Quality kit" it doesn't need too many aftermarket parts when the equipment starts to wear out. That can get expensive! Don't forget, too, that there are always newer and better "kits" being released out there and the temptation to "build" the "newer kits" can get you into much trouble!

Jeff
Grumpyoldman
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Florida, United States
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Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 08:50 AM UTC
So I'm wondering what I should do with my "lizard" Sherman's that I have replaced with the Tasca ones?
HeavyArty
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Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 08:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text

So I'm wondering what I should do with my "lizard" Sherman's that I have replaced with the Tasca ones?


Do what the Army does with outdated tanks...Range Targets!!

A .22 cal round through the hull does wonders on them.
exer
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Dublin, Ireland
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Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 09:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

So I'm wondering what I should do with my "lizard" Sherman's that I have replaced with the Tasca ones?

or you could send them to this guy
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/thread/1193762878/Donations+needed+for+kids
Charlie-66
#186
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Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 09:08 AM UTC
Jim, I couldn't agree more. It is a great time to be in this hobby. besides, there is no such thing as "too many" Shermans.
exer
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Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 09:18 AM UTC
It truly is a great time to be a modeller of Allied subjects. I've bought more kits this year than in say the previous three years added together. And the hits just keep on coming
Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 - 12:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

So I'm wondering what I should do with my "lizard" Sherman's that I have replaced with the Tasca ones?

or you could send them to this guy
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/thread/1193762878/Donations+needed+for+kids


I did email him Pat, Still waiting for an answer.
Jamesite
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Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 - 12:54 AM UTC
I am a big advocate of building older, not so good kits, as I relish bringing them up to date, putting the effort in and improving them. Sometimes I find this more satisfying than building a newer kit that is great OOB. However, older kits are what they are - older and there is no excuse for new releases to be of this poor standard. Instead each new release should be a lesson in quality, as our hobby progresses so should the quality of the kits. Shame on companies that think they can get away with releasing new kits that are a ten year (or more in certain cases) old standard.
So quality instead of quantity? We have quantity from the years of older kits out there, lets see quality now, but in the right areas, not just re-doing the same old AFV's.

Now where is that new churchill?

James
Halfyank
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Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 - 01:55 AM UTC
Quality definitely trumps quantity, to a point. I would say market pressure is such that most all new kits are quality kits. I haven't seen too many kits being reviewed about kits from the "big guys" being really bad, at least in armor. Newer companies might produce a less than great kit, but they need to learn somehow. I hope though that the LHS will continue to stock older kits that should be less expensive so the younger, or newer, modelers have something that doesn't cost an arm and a leg to practice on.

One rant I have though is in ANY manufacturer re-releasing older, sub standard, kits with little or no modification and pricing them at current pricing. Italeri springs to mind.
Jamesite
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Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 - 04:01 AM UTC

Quoted Text

One rant I have though is in ANY manufacturer re-releasing older, sub standard, kits with little or no modification and pricing them at current pricing. Italeri springs to mind.


Well said, Italeri should know better. They have proven that they are capable of producing excellent kits, yet they cant seem to keep this standard up, or in fact cant be bothered to.

James
jimbrae
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Provincia de Lugo, Spain / Espaņa
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Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 - 04:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Well said, Italeri should know better. They have proven that they are capable of producing excellent kits, yet they cant seem to keep this standard up, or in fact cant be bothered to.


I rather think that the latter is appropriate. Their new Bofors - 1970s quality with 21st century pricing. AB41? Too many shortcuts... Their Sahariana on the other hand seems to have been created with a level of enthusiasm unseen beyond their amazing PT boats... Inconsistency. seems to be a company motto...
AlanL
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Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 - 04:19 AM UTC
I'd agree, I just hope they keep the ball rolling. We've seen a lot of excellent stuff this year, best new range of choices I can remember.

Al
JohnByng
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 - 04:39 AM UTC
I agree with everything that has been said.
I have been guilty of moaning on another website (and got told off by Pat) about the poses of a new 8th Army figure set but the fact is we are seeing kits like Bronco's Staghound and the aforementioned figures that people have been waiting a long time for.

I still have loads of stuff that I want but I never thought to see a Humber Scout Car in plastic so I bought the SKP one and the Bronco one and I plan to get the Twin Vickers version as well.

I hope Italeri continue to produce kits of subjects that no-one else makes but I also have to agree that they need to focus on their projects a bit more. I can't understand why they only put the wheel well covers in one of their DUKW kits when they could easily have included them in the rest and made my life a lot easier!
cach7
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Posted: Friday, November 02, 2007 - 04:40 AM UTC
Its nice to hear you guys who build allied stuff not complain for once. Now Dragon can start releasing more Panthers and Tigers. Just kidding, no hate mail please.
Plasticbattle
#003
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Posted: Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 02:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I am a big advocate of building older, not so good kits, as I relish bringing them up to date, putting the effort in and improving them. Sometimes I find this more satisfying than building a newer kit that is great OOB

Hi james. Im sure you do, but I feel this is a question of one´s available time. In the summer when I built the Tamiya and Tristar P IV Ds, and actually preffered the Tristar straight from the box. When all painted, the extra time and details needed for the Tamiya kit, still dont add up to the quality and ease of the Tristar. I know my own preferences are based on the lack of time I have at the moment, and have to agree with Mr. Rae about opting for quality over quantity. I have built my share of duds in the past as well, but this experiment has totally convinced me of what I want to build. I see modelling, leaning more and more towards painting and weathering, and having the possibility of building an excellent kit OOB and getting on with that, is my goal as well. With the amount and varitey of models coming out nowadays as well, my attention seems to slip to new kits, rather than have the patience to add extra details to older kits.
I know a lot of your model choices have meant there have been no better option, and your skills have really improved in this department, but would you go through all this hassle if there was a better option OOB?

Quoted Text

I can't understand why they only put the wheel well covers in one of their DUKW kits when they could easily have included them in the rest and made my life a lot easier!

AFAIK, the wheel well covers were only included in the last version they released ... its the earlier versions that dont have them. I agree ... this was a serious slip-up. But at least they did listen and they were made available eventually. Ive always had a soft-spot for Italeri, but they could do with a kick in the @r$e sometimes. But this all comes back to the quality question. A little more planning in the beginning could have realised the ultimate kit from the start. Because of thier subject choice, they could be making a killing instead of suffering from bad press. Thier kits are quite reasonably priced in Sweden, so Im guessing you guys in States are getting hit with transport costs and the weak dollar!
sgtreef
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Posted: Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 02:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I still have yet to decide if the same theory applies to women

must continue my research....


I guess it depends on if you're "serious" about the "hobby" or if you're just an OOB kind of guy.
If you're just playing around then QUANTITY is definitely better. If you're serious then Quality is the deciding factor. Just make sure if you get "Quality kit" it doesn't need too many aftermarket parts when the equipment starts to wear out. That can get expensive! Don't forget, too, that there are always newer and better "kits" being released out there and the temptation to "build" the "newer kits" can get you into much trouble!

Jeff


True and some can be a real "High Maintance Kit"
Hohenstaufen
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Posted: Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 09:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Inconsistency. seems to be a company motto...

Well, they are Italian after all, ever ridden a 1970s Ducati?

Personally, having been modelling for more years than I like to remember, I'm seeing quality AND quantity. I remember the days when we all waited with bated breath for the latest Tamiya release. The frenzied scrabbling through Military Modelling, then the ecstatsy or disappointment (yes, this is being written slightly tongue in cheek). Or when you would put up with the inaccuracies or motorisation features just to get a vehicle no one else made (e.g. the Mercedes G4 staff car mentioned elsewhere on this site - I've got one in the loft, but I painted it Panzer Grey).

We are in a golden age fellers!
Murdo
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Posted: Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 10:41 AM UTC
Well, I've just bought a Revell 1/35th 109 Series Land Rover from Evilbay Holland because nobody makes them in plastic.

I need about five of them for several different models / dios so quantity would suit me fine.

Quality isn't really that much of an issue as they will be chopped up and modified to NI Macralon armoured versions etc.

However Land Rovers models are as scarce as hen's teeth and the proverbial Rocking Horse poo!
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
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Posted: Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 11:29 AM UTC
Quality, for sure

although both are available nowadays. (Look at the selection of Dragon Shermans.)
Still a good M4 mid and a good T-34/76 hex turret, would both be very welcome.
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