Dioramas
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How to determine building sizes?
long_tom
Illinois, United States
Joined: March 18, 2006
KitMaker: 2,362 posts
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Joined: March 18, 2006
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Posted: Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 05:32 AM UTC
Unless you use a kit (and they are not always accurate), how do you know what size to make a building? Not only overall dimensions, but door and window sizes, etc.? I assume there was some degree of standardization among architecture even centuries ago.
cheyenne
New Jersey, United States
Joined: January 05, 2005
KitMaker: 2,185 posts
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Joined: January 05, 2005
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Posted: Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 07:27 AM UTC
Hi Tom, there was some standardization of building construction but not in a " building code " sense. Very early European and American structures were built as shelters so basically anything goes. Towns sprung up around these and in many cases cities [ and codes, payoffs etc., l.o.l. ] afterwards. M any cities can cite these examples of old and new to this day.
As a rule of thumb for me I use a Dragon, Tamiya, Verlinden, Warrior and Jaguar figure as a door and window size ref. along with 1st floor, 2nd floor etc. heights. The multiple figs., because of the " true size variations " amongst 1/35th scale figs.
Internet research is very helpful for building styles and regions. Take it from there. Type in early German [ or any region ] buildings etc. and see what examples you get.
Cheyenne
As a rule of thumb for me I use a Dragon, Tamiya, Verlinden, Warrior and Jaguar figure as a door and window size ref. along with 1st floor, 2nd floor etc. heights. The multiple figs., because of the " true size variations " amongst 1/35th scale figs.
Internet research is very helpful for building styles and regions. Take it from there. Type in early German [ or any region ] buildings etc. and see what examples you get.
Cheyenne
okdoky
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: April 30, 2007
KitMaker: 1,597 posts
Armorama: 806 posts
Joined: April 30, 2007
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Armorama: 806 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 07:49 AM UTC
Hi there
There can be some cheap and chearful construction books in public liabraries which cover construction through the ages. Though certain rules of thumb can run true for various countries.
Basic head height for doorways 1900mm (though have had to pass through many smaller country cottage doors.
Ceiling heights in rooms for country cottages can be as low as 2000mm (seen lower in some areas) with ceiling heights upwards of 3000mm in grand houses or with galleries at first and upper floors.
Modern plasterboard walls now take ceiling heights to 2400mm for standardised houses. Again ceiling heights can be heigher depending on architects design or clients wishes.
Floor levels generally just above external ground level for concrete, stone or tiled floors. Add anything upwards of 300mm for vented underfloor voids to timber ground floors (loder houses often poorly vented and plauged with damp).
An old rule of thumb for upper floor timber sizes to span ratio was an inch depth of timber (25mm) for every foot (300mm) span. So add up each 25mm for the width of span. Don't take too wide a span though.
E.g. 14 feet (4200mm) room width with 2 inch (50mm) floor joists above at 1 and half foot spacing (450mm) = 14 inch deep floor joists or 350mm.
So if you have a basic vented floor
Ground level outside is 0mm
floor level (ground floor) say 300mm
floor to ceiling level (first floor) cottage say 1900mm or grander house say 3000mm
floor thickness (first floor) anything from 200mm to 350mm depending on room size
then start again for floor to ceiling.
Window height is basic eyelevel sitting or standing and safety for people standing in front falling through the glass.
800mm from floor to cill (bottom of window) is a good rule of thumb. Anything from 1800mm up to just below ceiling of room will do for lintel (top of window).
My old first floor flat built in the 1800's had heigh ceilings about 3000mm. Most windows were about 800mm cill and 2000mm lintel height. The main lounge bay window though was 300mm cill and 2000mm lintel.
A lot of countries had a window tax so you paid taxes based on the size and number of windows your house had. Rich had big windows and lots of them. Poor had small ones and dark poorly vented rooms.
Hope this helps.
Nige
There can be some cheap and chearful construction books in public liabraries which cover construction through the ages. Though certain rules of thumb can run true for various countries.
Basic head height for doorways 1900mm (though have had to pass through many smaller country cottage doors.
Ceiling heights in rooms for country cottages can be as low as 2000mm (seen lower in some areas) with ceiling heights upwards of 3000mm in grand houses or with galleries at first and upper floors.
Modern plasterboard walls now take ceiling heights to 2400mm for standardised houses. Again ceiling heights can be heigher depending on architects design or clients wishes.
Floor levels generally just above external ground level for concrete, stone or tiled floors. Add anything upwards of 300mm for vented underfloor voids to timber ground floors (loder houses often poorly vented and plauged with damp).
An old rule of thumb for upper floor timber sizes to span ratio was an inch depth of timber (25mm) for every foot (300mm) span. So add up each 25mm for the width of span. Don't take too wide a span though.
E.g. 14 feet (4200mm) room width with 2 inch (50mm) floor joists above at 1 and half foot spacing (450mm) = 14 inch deep floor joists or 350mm.
So if you have a basic vented floor
Ground level outside is 0mm
floor level (ground floor) say 300mm
floor to ceiling level (first floor) cottage say 1900mm or grander house say 3000mm
floor thickness (first floor) anything from 200mm to 350mm depending on room size
then start again for floor to ceiling.
Window height is basic eyelevel sitting or standing and safety for people standing in front falling through the glass.
800mm from floor to cill (bottom of window) is a good rule of thumb. Anything from 1800mm up to just below ceiling of room will do for lintel (top of window).
My old first floor flat built in the 1800's had heigh ceilings about 3000mm. Most windows were about 800mm cill and 2000mm lintel height. The main lounge bay window though was 300mm cill and 2000mm lintel.
A lot of countries had a window tax so you paid taxes based on the size and number of windows your house had. Rich had big windows and lots of them. Poor had small ones and dark poorly vented rooms.
Hope this helps.
Nige
slodder
North Carolina, United States
Joined: February 22, 2002
KitMaker: 11,718 posts
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Joined: February 22, 2002
KitMaker: 11,718 posts
Armorama: 7,138 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 08:44 AM UTC
One thing to do too is to consider the size of the figures you have. Different manufactures run a bit larger or smaller. So make sure you know which kits you plan on using and gear some of the sizing to them.
long_tom
Illinois, United States
Joined: March 18, 2006
KitMaker: 2,362 posts
Armorama: 2,005 posts
Joined: March 18, 2006
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Posted: Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 02:35 PM UTC
Wow, thanks for all the help!
One thing I noticed: I read years ago a newspaper article about how the world's cities were looking like each other due to modern architecture. But when I saw the centuries-old buildings of the various European nations, they look very similar to each other as well! Presumably when you have a successful design it becomes very popular and much copied.
One thing I noticed: I read years ago a newspaper article about how the world's cities were looking like each other due to modern architecture. But when I saw the centuries-old buildings of the various European nations, they look very similar to each other as well! Presumably when you have a successful design it becomes very popular and much copied.
okdoky
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: April 30, 2007
KitMaker: 1,597 posts
Armorama: 806 posts
Joined: April 30, 2007
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Posted: Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 03:37 PM UTC
Hi there
With the European Union, it is supposed to be that Building Standards or Codes will be standardised throughout. This is supposed to encourage free trade and use of inovative products. Also to ensure that the best life safety and environmental use of materials is possible.
There is something to be said for traditional, local ways of construction though. What works in Sweden or Finland might work in Canada but won't necessarilly work in the South of France. Also transporting materials from one end of the world to build on the other side is not very env friendly.
Problem is the that local materials can also run out so got to outsource.
If it works it works!!!!!!!!! If it don't it can be very messy and an expensive clear up after!!!!!!
With the European Union, it is supposed to be that Building Standards or Codes will be standardised throughout. This is supposed to encourage free trade and use of inovative products. Also to ensure that the best life safety and environmental use of materials is possible.
There is something to be said for traditional, local ways of construction though. What works in Sweden or Finland might work in Canada but won't necessarilly work in the South of France. Also transporting materials from one end of the world to build on the other side is not very env friendly.
Problem is the that local materials can also run out so got to outsource.
If it works it works!!!!!!!!! If it don't it can be very messy and an expensive clear up after!!!!!!
slodder
North Carolina, United States
Joined: February 22, 2002
KitMaker: 11,718 posts
Armorama: 7,138 posts
Joined: February 22, 2002
KitMaker: 11,718 posts
Armorama: 7,138 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 12:28 AM UTC
One more thing I'd like to add - in a diorama you can get away with progressive shrinking (in some cases). If all your attention and action is on the ground some builders will set the ground floor to scale, then shrink each progressive floor by 1-2mm. This reduces the overall size bringing more attention to the ground and saves on material.
Posted: Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 12:59 AM UTC
Hi Tom. I also use a figure to get the scale. Just use whatever figures you´re planning in incorporating in the scene.
But think outside the box also. Having a perfect scale multi-story building beside one figure, will look unblanced. The house should suit the scene .... and the scene suit the house. Artistic license should be used freely. See some of the work of Blockhaus. A corner, or strategically built wall, staircase, etc can be better suited than the whole building. Also consider where the building will be placed ... angles, background/interacting, 360° viewing etc.
IMO it takes way more planning to get a structure looking right, than a vehicle or a figure.
But think outside the box also. Having a perfect scale multi-story building beside one figure, will look unblanced. The house should suit the scene .... and the scene suit the house. Artistic license should be used freely. See some of the work of Blockhaus. A corner, or strategically built wall, staircase, etc can be better suited than the whole building. Also consider where the building will be placed ... angles, background/interacting, 360° viewing etc.
IMO it takes way more planning to get a structure looking right, than a vehicle or a figure.