I'm now well into the build for my T34/76 and have sprayed on the base colour of Tamiya XF61, but it looks too dark; have I got it wrong?
Is there a better colour ref to go on or is it a mix-and-see method?

Thanks

Rich

Some people use fe Tamiya Field grey, others a mix of Tamiya dark green and olive drab. WWII in color has some interesting color pics. This model is also painted in a reliable color. (mix of Tamiya dark green and olive drab)
http://www.track-link.net/gallery/4216

Hope this helps.

I thought that during and after WW2, the green colors on armor varied widely depending on paint availability, so pretty much any shade of green would be authentic?

Hi Rich Tamiya Nato Green is a good match according to Steve Zaloga and the Tamiya Dark Green & Olive Drab mix looks good too .

I have to agree with Tom. During the war, paint mixtures and the quality of application varied by factory, and if you throw in the effects of weathering, you can imagine there were quite a variety of "correct" greens from which to choose.

Almost any olive drab, olive green or dark green would work. I've used, in no particular order, Testor's Model Master Meduim Green (FS34102), Tamiya's TS-5 Olive Drab (in the handy spray can), Tamiya's XF-70 Dark Green 2, Testor's Model Master Dark Green (FS34079) and even Floquil's Pullman Green. I know that Testor's makes a "Russian Armor Green", but, ironically, I've never used it.

HTH.

-YL

I did MM green drab preshade base followed by a mix of green drab/od green mix for highlights. Russian WWII armor greens are like IDF armor sands, there's countless variations.

There actually was a color standard for Russian 4BO Protective Green. Current historians in Russia have leaned toward FS 34102 as a pretty good match for the official color cards (it's widely available as a USAF Cammo color in most paint lines). As said, there would have been a lot of variation given the extreme conditions during the war. However, avoid the garish grass greens popular on some recent models--concensus is that the greens were rather dark and muted. Of course, most tanks in the field are just not clean enough for the original shade to be visible, so you can just start with a color close to where you want to end up (the Verlinden strategy--he never bothered to paint Olive Drab vehicles Olive Drab--he'd use any old subdued green, because he was going to weather the heck out of them, anyway).

Richard,

I use XF-61 as my basecoat when painting WWII Russian armor.

Over that I spray a "Cloud Pattern" of XF-61with a bit of Flat White (XF-2) and a larger amount of Dark Yellow (XF-60) added. It will be substantially lighter than the original color.

This is sprayed very thinly over the basecoat with some of the basecoat showing through, especially around the edges.

Below is a photo which illustrates the end result. I know it's not the best photo but I hope it helps to illustrate what I described.

Just a note: FS34102 is available as Testor's Model Master Medium Green, available in both spray can and bottle.

By the way, that's a pretty nice looking IS-2.

-YL

Kevin, what aftermarket detail kit did you use on your T-34-85 that has those photoetch and wire intakes?

TIA!

George,

I may be wrong, but it looks like Dragon's Premium Edition T34/85 model with bedspring armor. Here you can find something about it:
http://www.dragon-models.com/html/6266poster.htm

Andrzej

Thanks to you all - it's reassuring to see that the KV2 is almost the same dark green as I've got... I'd seen a few very pale green T34's recently which is why I thought I'd got it wrong...

I think that another reason many people are die-hard fanatics of FS colors is that they want something SOLID to base their paint job on and they have a hard time hadneling the more nebulous concepts of color distortion for distance, light source, atmosphere, etc...as well as field conditions like rain, sun, and application by a tired/bored/scared/careless crew. "weathering" and "fading" are HARD concepts to grasp when painting, and even harder to execute. Never mind pre- and post- shading. Many people just want to paint it FS color green and be done with it. I have no problem with that.

However, I do often get my hackles up when someone says that "It was not painted that way!" over certain shades of green or such...("Pink" panthers and such aside.) Some of us like to show the effects of the environment on the vehicle, to make it look more "real" in our own ways.

I guess in that way I would be similar to Mr. Verlinden's vision...whoo boy.

So now you have a FS # if you want to work with the official 1/1 scale color or you have several other answers and examples if you decide to do something more. Have Fun!

By the way, that's a pretty nice looking IS-2.

-YL
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Thank you Yoni.

Not to leave Kevin out...that's a pretty nice looking T-34!

-YL

Yup, DML premium kit, great buy at about $35 with the metal barrel and PE bedspring armor. Ron(Biffa) has a full build feature on it. They have another T34 featuring the extra fuel tanks and straps too. Both great kits. It actually had more 'bedsprings' on the side and has the magic tracks(simple on T34's because they are so flat and square), that was a WIP. Mine looks like Ron's because he gave me advice on painting/weathering while he was building his in the original blog. Ron's great at really explaining how to do stuff.

https://armorama.kitmaker.net//features/1458


And I love that IS2 Fledermos, I want to do up the premium SU100 in a more 'blackish' grey/green like that to mix it up on the shelf. I'll try mixing up the XF-61 next time. I also want to do a captured Panther A with zim in Russian green in the near future too.

Here's a couple more of the T34, I eventually will take decent pics of it, colors are a bit off in these, the white is way oversaturated in my photos.

That looks fantastic - food for thought for when I come to the weathering on mine. I really like the rust patches around the handles showing through the white stripes on the turret, and the colour of the bedsprings is that difficult to acheive weathered rust - good job on getting that right...
I'm waiting for this kit and the newer DML T34/76 1941 cast turret, but will probably get them in the new year now...

Rich

Well to add to it I like my green too.







Model Master Dark Green Testors.

Thanks! The photos have the white way oversaturated, they are not nearly so bright in person. I didn't overspray it much with the base color like I do decals on most other AFV models' markings since most of those markings were done with a big brush soaked in white paint rather then being stencil sprayed on. The rust was just raw umber oil and it stained it nicely, and there's some slight chipping but it doesn't really show. I got the idea for brown from Ron Goins' build, I painted them black, then a patchy-transparent raw umber MM, and then a slight dry brush here and there with steel and a little pencil graphite, although it doesn't show well in the pics either. They were all a little 'tweaked' to show being walked on/beat up but you have to be careful as the frame is so thin and you don't want any tension to the mounting points.

And your build looks great Jeff! I started a T34/76 and I ruined the paint job so I haven't had the fortitude to strip it back down to repaint it. I think the MM dark green and green drab make great bases for Russian armor mixed with various levels of yellow/buff/grey. I bought the specific 'russian armor green' from MM and it looked like Kermit the Frog(hence the '76 sitting in the box awaiting repair). I really love the '76 and need to get around to fixing it.

I also want to do up one more 85 in the parade near black-green with the white rims and perfect-painted markings. Maybe I'll do up one as a pedestal tank. I'm surprised nobody ever models one to exactly replicate one on display-being the reference is dead-bang for the subject...hmm

I dunno, I LIKE the Model Master Acryl "Russian Armor Green". On an episode of "Firepower" they showed a whole shed of T-34's in this exact color. NATO Green, which Steve Z. likes for Russian armor, certainly isn't a Drab color. Here's a few shots of my T-70 painted with the Model Master Acryl "Russian Armor Green".

That is a Pretty nice color Matthew.

I remember an article in a early AFV modeler that had them in all shades of green.

Somebody else remember that issue?

It's important to remember that "FS Colors" are a reference to the US government Federal Standards, specifically the FS595 colour chips, which if I'm not mistaken were a postwar standard that happened to include many (but not all) of the colours used by US forces during WW2.

As such, they are totally irrelevant, as an exact standard, to equipment produced or painted by Germany, Britain, the USSR, Japan, or any other country. They are useful only as a guide, a "ballpark" specimen that people can consult to get an approximation of what a colour looked like. Similar chips were produced by other governments for their equipment, including Great Britain, Germany, and the USSR. There are some colours, even many colours, that simply will not fit into the pidgeonholes that are the FS595 standard.

For modellers, the FS595 colours are widely referred to because of their availability. I have a fan set that I bought many years ago, and I do refer to it, but I'm long past the point of being dogmatic about what is or isn't the "correct" colour. As far as I'm concerned, there is no such thing.

Paint, from the can, will vary widely according to availability of chemicals for pigments, the solvents used, method of application, etc. The urgency of wartime production inevitably results in a relaxation of quality control and close adherence to specifications. The light conditions under which it viewed have an affect, and the photographic record is likewise effected by the emulsions used in the film and the developing process. Then, once a vehicle leaves the factory, the finish starts to weather, and all bets are off.

Yes, there was a colour called 4BO, in fact there were (at least) two — one for tanks and another for aircraft, but as far as I know no one has succeeded in coming up with anything more than an approximation of what it was. That's fine by me, and completely understandable. I'm content to paint my tanks green, to suit my palate (and pallette), and by the time they're bent and bashed and weathered, they're a perfect match. Prove me wrong!

So-called experts who insist that this or that green is wrong are on very thin ice, as far as I'm concerned, particularly when it comes to what shade of green was used on Soviet tanks. "It is best to be silent, and thought a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt!" Likewise, anyone who lies awake at night wondering whether they painted their T-34 the wrong colour needs to take up collecting stamps or coins or bottle caps. Modelling is an art form, not a science, so let the artist in you loose!

Cheers
Scott Fraser