_GOTOBOTTOM
Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
8th Army Artillery
Ray_from_SA
Visit this Community
Connecticut, United States
Joined: December 31, 2007
KitMaker: 47 posts
Armorama: 24 posts
Posted: Monday, December 31, 2007 - 04:42 AM UTC
Hey guys,

Looking for some help in sourcing a kit (if one exists), and I know the best folks to ask are those that build them.

My Grandfather served in North Africa in WW2 as member of the British contingent of the 8th Army, he was in artillery and I know he was at the second battle of Alamein.
He passed away recently and I want to pay him tribute by building a replica of the field guns in use by the 8th Army if such a kit exists, so far though I haven't been able to find anything which convinces me of what gun they actually used.

If any of you could help me out with your superior knowledge and tell me which field gun was in use at the time (was it the 25lb'er or the US made howitzer or something else?) I would be truly appreciative.
If I can be so demanding as to ask you point me in the direction of a reasonably accurate kit too that would help

Thanks for any help you can offer - greatly appreciated!

Ray
ericadeane
Visit this Community
Michigan, United States
Joined: October 28, 2002
KitMaker: 4,021 posts
Armorama: 3,947 posts
Posted: Monday, December 31, 2007 - 04:48 AM UTC
The Tamiya 25pdr w/crew would do you well. As a matter of fact, the crew they include are desert artillerymen. OOB it's not bad. If you want to go whole hog, there is an Eduard detail set I believe.

The 25 pdr would have been standard field artillery. Larger assets would have been 7.2" heavy guns. I'd stay with the 25pdr personally.
Navyelephant
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: February 09, 2006
KitMaker: 28 posts
Armorama: 19 posts
Posted: Monday, December 31, 2007 - 05:13 AM UTC
Accurate Armour (http://www.accurate-armour.com/showaaproducts.cfm?category=15&subcategory=17) have all you need in the way of 8th Army Arty. I had a relation in the RA who served out there and he was a BK in a 3.7" AA Gun Battery.
210cav
Visit this Community
Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Monday, December 31, 2007 - 07:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hey guys,

Looking for some help in sourcing a kit (if one exists), and I know the best folks to ask are those that build them.

My Grandfather served in North Africa in WW2 as member of the British contingent of the 8th Army, he was in artillery and I know he was at the second battle of Alamein.
He passed away recently and I want to pay him tribute by building a replica of the field guns in use by the 8th Army if such a kit exists, so far though I haven't been able to find anything which convinces me of what gun they actually used.

If any of you could help me out with your superior knowledge and tell me which field gun was in use at the time (was it the 25lb'er or the US made howitzer or something else?) I would be truly appreciative.
If I can be so demanding as to ask you point me in the direction of a reasonably accurate kit too that would help

Thanks for any help you can offer - greatly appreciated!

Ray


Ray-- send me a PM if you are interested in the Tamiya 25 pounder. I have a few with the tractor available for trade.
DJ
Ray_from_SA
Visit this Community
Connecticut, United States
Joined: December 31, 2007
KitMaker: 47 posts
Armorama: 24 posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 - 03:29 PM UTC
Thanks for your input guys, you can't believe how much I appreciate it.

DJ, the offer is appreciated. I would take you up on the trade offer but I have to confess I come from the 'wrong' side of the hobby (scale motorsports), so unless you want a few Nissan Skyline kits I am shy of anything of real trade value.
tankmodeler
#417
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
Armorama: 2,539 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 10:56 AM UTC
Ray,

If your Grandfather was in the field artillery, then the 25 pdr is the one and only choice. If he was in the medium artillery, then he would have been on a 5.5" gun. In the heavy artillery he would have been on a 7.2" howitzer or maybe a 60 cwt gun. If you can find out what his regiment was, we could help with the choice. There are resin kits of the 5.5 & the 7.2 if you have to go that way, but they are much more expensive than the 25 pdr.

The artillery branch also covered the anti-aircraft & anti-tank functions as well, so he could have served with other guns. It also covered the surveying function so he might not have served with guns at all. If you can find out his unit, we can all make more educated guesses, if you want to be more precise with your choice. If, on the other hand, you just want to honour the artillery of the battle, the 25 pdr will do nicely.

Paul
Ray_from_SA
Visit this Community
Connecticut, United States
Joined: December 31, 2007
KitMaker: 47 posts
Armorama: 24 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 11:29 AM UTC
Hi Paul,

Thanks for volunteering to help out further.

I do know for a fact my Grandfather was on a gun crew as I saw the scars on his legs he received at Alamein from the hot casings while they were reloading the gun and that's what he always explained them as being caused by. I also know his unit were at the Battle for Caen after landing as part of the D-Day invasion.

Unfortunately, the old boy never liked to talk much about the war in any regard so everything I know was dragged out of him at length.

I am off to the UK in a few days and hope I will find out more while there.

Thanks for all the help.

Ray
Murdo
Visit this Community
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: May 25, 2005
KitMaker: 2,218 posts
Armorama: 1,050 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 11:31 AM UTC
Hi Ray,

This is a 25 pdr. The Tamiya one is very nice.





This is what the 5.5" Gun looks like.


tankmodeler
#417
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
Armorama: 2,539 posts
Posted: Friday, January 04, 2008 - 05:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I am off to the UK in a few days and hope I will find out more while there.

If you are in a position to ask questions of someone who may know, then the regiment is the single most important piece of info to find. Get that and we can reconstruct a whole lot. A photo of him next to a vehicle would be really good as would any indication of what battery he served in. But the regiment is key.

Have a good trip,

Paul
Ray_from_SA
Visit this Community
Connecticut, United States
Joined: December 31, 2007
KitMaker: 47 posts
Armorama: 24 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 02:50 AM UTC
Hey guys.

Well, I confirmed through the documents we could find he was on 25 pdrs in North Africa, seems he was in the 44th Infantry, 132nd Brigade. After North Africa he was transferred to the 50th up until Caen and Nijmegan Bridge. After the "Bridge too Far" fiasco he was transferred to the 10th Highland Ligth Infantry with their anti-tank gun unit and he finished out the was in Lubeck and Iserlohn with the 'Polar Bear Division'.

We also found his demob papers so we are applying for his full war records as we managed to uncover he served in both Sicily and Italy prior to returning to Europe for D-Day. We also confirmed he boarded the landing craft at Tilbury on 6th June.

Lots of good info found

Any general details based on units you guys can add would be awesome. Thanks for all the help to date
ALBOWIE
Visit this Community
New South Wales, Australia
Joined: February 28, 2006
KitMaker: 1,605 posts
Armorama: 1,565 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 08:24 PM UTC
If he was with an Infantry Regt he was more likely on 2 pdr or 6 pdr AT. Infantry regts did not have integral Field Artillery (25pdrs) but did have integral AT in the form of 2 and 6 pdrs. An infantry BDE on the other hand would have FD Arty.
CHeers
Al
bydand
Visit this Community
England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: April 19, 2004
KitMaker: 278 posts
Armorama: 167 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 11:20 PM UTC
Ray,

If your information is correct this might help.
http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2DiSi-c13.html

HTH
Craig
Ray_from_SA
Visit this Community
Connecticut, United States
Joined: December 31, 2007
KitMaker: 47 posts
Armorama: 24 posts
Posted: Friday, January 18, 2008 - 12:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text

If he was with an Infantry Regt he was more likely on 2 pdr or 6 pdr AT. Infantry regts did not have integral Field Artillery (25pdrs) but did have integral AT in the form of 2 and 6 pdrs. An infantry BDE on the other hand would have FD Arty.
CHeers
Al


As confirmed from what we found and word-of-mouth from fellow family members - he was on 25lbers in North Africa and Italy. He was on 6lb anti-tank after Market Garden in Europe.
Drader
Visit this Community
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 2,798 posts
Posted: Friday, January 18, 2008 - 01:41 AM UTC
Hi Ray

Looks like he may have changed regiments at some point, as none of the Field Regiments (which would have had 25pdrs) of 44th Infantry Division followed the same path as your grandfather after the disbanding of the division. They all seem to have stayed in the Med. The nearest match so far I've found on Derek Barton's RA site is 65 Field Regiment, which went on to 50th Division, but then 56th Division unlike your grandfather.

http://www.ra39-45.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/field/page65.html

David
Ray_from_SA
Visit this Community
Connecticut, United States
Joined: December 31, 2007
KitMaker: 47 posts
Armorama: 24 posts
Posted: Friday, January 18, 2008 - 02:13 AM UTC
David,

We're trying to track that down. We know he was assigned to a Rhodesian regiment at Tripoli, we know he was on 25's.
He mentioned the 44th when he departed England on the Q.Mary for Africa and we have confirmed without a doubt he was with the 50th after North Africa.

We're in the process of submitting application for his army records.

You mention the units from the 44th staying in the med, maybe you can ellaborate?

From what we've traced of his travels they are as follows:
England > North Africa > Scicily > Italy > England > Gold Beach > Caen > Falaise Gap

In honesty, it's a bit of a puzzle here as it is. I have confirmed he finished out the war with the 10th Highland before joining the 49th Polar Bear Div, and we know he was in the 50th, it's the area around the 44th and North Africa which is still coming through a little grey.

Maybe we should take this to PM and we can discuss it and hopefully your superior knowledge can help me fill in the blanks without cluttering up the forum?
Drader
Visit this Community
Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 2,798 posts
Posted: Friday, January 18, 2008 - 03:07 AM UTC
Ray

There wasn't much specialist knowledge involved I just cross-referenced the Field Regiments in the divisional orbats here

http://www.unithistories.com/units_british/units_british.html

with the postings of individual regiments here

http://www.ra39-45.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/page3.html

I can't find one individual field regiment that moved from the 44th Division to the 50th Division and then came back to the UK for the Normandy landings. 50th Divisions orbat on the 6th June 1944 is here

http://www.6juin1944.com/assaut/gold/en_page.php?page=50

Chasing individuals through WW2 can be prove a challenge - my girlfriend's late father was administratively lost by the army after escaping Crete until he was at an AA School in Lebanon in 1943!

David
 _GOTOTOP