hi
has anyone finished this kit yet? i have just recived mine after a long wait and would be interested to see any finished pics. i know there are probulems with this kit and was following the build log.

thanks
neil

That gives me a Idea:

Does anyone have a "fix' for this problem kit yet? I looked through mine, same exact problem as all others are quoting. I would like to build it, but what really needs to be done to fix this problem? A new rear plate and tranny cover? A new upper hull (Not really in the range of most builders to convert.)?

Does anyone who has looked through this kit better than I have any ideas on what to do?

I wonder why MIG haven't tried to sell separately the upper hull of their STZ conversion? They alreday have the part and it would fit the lower hull perfectly, missed opportunity IMVHO.

Cheers,

Christophe

hi everyone
i might have done it, i'll post a pic very soon if i can........
what i did......
1: glue the rear plate onto the top hull.

2: fit the bits to the lower hull (inside and 2 pieces at the back (c1/c2), also fit the 2 cones at the back (a5) to give abit of strength.

3: hold the top hull to the bottom, at the back you will notic that on the inside of c1/c2 there is a bit that it is sitting ontop of, (if the top piece was the right side this would not be a problem, but as it isnt cut this little piece down till it sits ok.......now glue the top and lower hull together.
i know there is a small gap at the front but i'll get to that dont worry

4: (YOU MAY WANT TO TRY THIS STAGE AND THE NEXT WITH THE SPARE BACK PLATE FIRST, G1. THATS WHAT I DID)
take piece r5, back plate. very carefully shave no more than 1/2 mm ( thats half a millimeter) off the top and bottom edge. now test fit it, it sits ok just a little high.....

5: cut off the triange hinge pieces on the top, now using the side of your knife, scrape it down slowly, test fitting all the time, till it sits under the hinges on the back plate,
now repeat for the bottom, till it lines up...........................and there you go, one back plate that fits!!!!!

6: now you just need to cut 2 pieces of plastic card or brass to replace the half of the hinges.

now i am no expert but to me that looks ok, i know its measurments are going to be abit out but who comes up to your models with a tapemeasure and checks these things. it looks good/right and that is what counts i think.

oh and the piece at the front, with the gap the kit piece wont fit, well the pics i have seen have a weld there, so a bit of filler, then whatever methard you use to make a weld and it should be fine!

hope this helps
neil

ok, its not a very good pic but you get the idea, as you can see it all fits together fine.
i'll get a better one on here tomorrow if anyone wants it.


neil

Obviously you have not been to a IPMS show... (Just ribbing you...)

That sounds like a great way to try to fix the problem...and thanks for taking the time to do the "research". I, personally, will not be able to try it out right away...any takers?

Jacques, this kit is a total botch.

The basic problem is that the plate the turret sits on is too long. The turret itself sits too far back. The engine deck is the right length, but it has been shoved back because of the too-long forward plate, and that has screwed the angle of the rear plate, which is now too sharp. It should be 47°32'. There are minor detail errors too, but these are trivial in comparison with the hull proportions.

A fix? To build it accurately?

There are several ways to go. The first is to start from a different DML T-34. From the STZ kit #6388, use the wheels, turret, front plate, back plate, and tracks. Throw the rest of it away, or use the hull and (revised) rear deck to build a SU-122 or Su-85 with Tamiya parts. Take the hull from the other DML kit (#6092, #6205, #6355, #6418) and notch the hull to take the front and rear plate from the STZ kit. You will probably have to replace the fenders. You can also use a T-34-85 kit, but then you have to deal with the rounded front and rear hull. Regardless, you will have to swipe the new driver's hatch from another kit. If the chopped turret cheeks and Barrikady mantlet are not important, it is easiest to start from #6355, which will give you the turret.

The second approach is to take the hull from #6388, carefully remove the top plate and engine deck, remove 2-3mm ahead of the turret (without disturbing the fuel filler or suspension access hatches) and build the rest of the upper hull up from .040" sheet styrene. It sounds harder than it is — thankfully it is a simple shape, so basically you need the sides (with notches), the rear engine deck under the radiator exhaust shroud, and something front and back to attach the kit plates to. then, you will need new fenders again, and to add all the stowage brackets and hooks. This method will also let you add the tabs where the top plate and side plates join. If you're really crazy, you can also build a new lower hull to reflect the tabbed joints there, too.

There is another option — put it in a diorama and bury the tank in mud up to the turret.

There are several people at pA building this right now, and there is some pretty good information there.

Cheers
Scott Fraser

Thanks for the info.

Well, since we all went and dropped the dough, I personally was looking for a way just to fix the botched rear plate area. And I have not been able to pay attention to it properly, so I thought I would see what others had to offer. It looks like there is a simple way to deal with just the back plate/tranny plate but I think we all know that for accuracy, DML totally screwed us all over with this kit. I have heard that they have not been able to sell them very well since word got out, and that a lot of places that bought cases of kits have returned them. True? Who knows, but it is a deserving fate for this kit. I REALLY hope DML learns from this and that they do not turn a profit on this kit.

But all the comments are usefull, thanks.

Kind of a turn-off for me. Tackling this kit when I know I have other,finely fitting kits in my "stash". I'll have to be in the mood first!!

What is "pA"?

Thanks,
Matt

Probably its Planetarmor.com

Planet Armor http://planetarmor.com/

Cheers,

Christophe

Thanks Christophe!

Matt

Anyone note the conspiracy theory over here

http://www.dmlforum.com/dmlforum/showthread.php?t=797

Oh well, the world is full of...conspiracy theorists. Aside from the huge holes in the theory that you could drive trucks through...it seems this guy has not bought the Cyber Hobby kit nor looked into its problems.

Maybe DML is trying to make as much money as they can off the T-34 molds before the AFV Club offering hits the shelves? See , I can start a crack-head theory too...

On the other hand, I have not gone back after this kit yet. Any new bright ideas on a quick fix?

what i did, as above didnt take long. i guess you could call it a quick fix. just a careful bit of re-sizing with a knife! i am no master modeler, not got he years in for that yet!!
it really wasnt hard.
i'll try and post some better pics of it on my webpage this week.

http://neil22.weebly.com/

neil

A friend of mine, frustrated with the fit issues of this particular kit, said his version of a quick fix was to:

1) build it as best you can, which may mean leaving off certain parts, and then...

2) smash it with a brick.

Ouch.

-YL

Man, I laughed my butt off at that set of remarks! That is too darn funny. You gotta buy your buddy a beer from me for that comment.

Anyhow, I was looking more for the inevitable someone who has decided to cut and scrape to make the kit correct, no matter the cost, and was just wondering if THAT person has emerged on cyberspace yet? (I mean, come one, we all know they are out there...and yes, I am jealous. I wish I was that builder. )

Well, if the kit is such a pain as I've been following this thread, why not stick with a proven kit from Trumpeter or Tamiya?

Charlie

Trouble is, we've already spent the money. The item was a limited edition pre-order kit, and we had to buy it sight unseen. Since these are supposed to be Dragon/Cyber Hobby's best products, a boneheaded engineering error like this left us surprised and very unhappy. Not to mention that this particular variant is one of the most distinctive and historically important of the T-34 series.

This is Bruno Collin's solution, which is as close to a "quick fix" as I've seen:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/message/1201036967/Easy+task+%21

As you can see, it's not that "quick". For my part, I'm going to scrounge the engine deck off another kit and rebuild the hull from sheet styrene. I have several other projects on the go right now, but when I do get to it I will have 1/35 scale templates for new hull plates.

Also, a head's up — many STZ tanks built during the winter 1941-42 had appliqué armour on the upper / lower nose. Anyone wanting to add these should know before they start that DML has positioned the towing cleats 1mm too far outboard, and this affects the way the appliqué fits. It's easy to fix, unless you've already stuck them on.

It would appear DML used the plans from the AjaKs books, as this is where they are shown on those plans. The drawings in Frontovaya Illustratsia 2006-04 and 2006-06 as well as in Mythical Weapon show them in the correct place.

Cheers
Scott Fraser

may not be much help, but i was equally frustrated with the quality of the Ferdinand Kit that Cyber Hobby recently produced. Cyber Hobby is billed as the "master grade" of kits and when I recieved the Ferdinand I eagerly opened it only to find it was a reboxed version of the original kit with only a few, and I do mean few extra parts and an enormous set of decals. I have a Ferdinand and an Elephant kit in my stash and with the exception of maybe the painting and decal instructions they were exactly the same. I emailed Dragon USA and expressed my displeasure and asked for a refund. A few days later I recieved a reply from a "Ryan" with a return authorization number. A couple of weeks after I shipped the kit back, I did indeed recieve a refund. I don't mind putting up with minor inaccuracies and some fit problems but if you all are having as many problems as you say with this "master grade" kit in my opinion sending it back is the only real option. I currently have two other cyber hobby kits and fourteen other dragon kits to build. I really enjoy both of their products and believe by and large they are worth every penny. Even the best have off days (product) they should be willing to make this right.
Fred Evans

Well, Fred, this is not quite the same "old dog in a new box" bait-and-switch scheme. The model was promoted as more than an upgrade, which is what you describe, but rather as a "new, accurate, model" based on existing components (as ALL of DML's T-34s are, going back to the first, fifteen-year old T-34 kit).

This is based on #6355, which was in turn based on #6205, their T-34 "Model 1941" with welded turret. #6355 has added parts for (most of) a new turret, front plate, roadwheels / idlers / drivers / tracks, new PE and a few other parts. The core of the kits is the same as the previous kits.

What they did with #6388, which is the kit in question, is to replace the upper hull entirely, modify the turret from the first STZ kit #6355 and supply a new rear plate, as well as a few other minor parts. Unfortunately, they botched the new upper hull, while at the same time omitting the original upper hull, resulting in a box full of spare parts, not a buildable model.

I'm sure that DML in the USA will refund or exchange the kit for a dufferent one — their customer service there is excellent. However their hands are tied here by the nitwits in China who released the kit without bothering to build it — it is not a moulding defect that can be addressed by swapping for a replacement, but a design defect that cannot be remedied without retooling the upper hull, or, as modellers, by taking the part they provided, slicing it up, and adding the detail they skipped over.

The biggest problem, at least for me, is that this is the version of the T-34 that was used in the winter of 1941 and spring of 1942, including the fighting around Moscow and the campaigns into Crimea and the Caucasus. This, or rather these are the tanks I want to build, at least three so far, and I cringe at having to fix them all.

Visualize a PzKpfw IV where the upper hull extends over the transmission hatches. That's similar to what we're faced with here.

Cheers

Beer(s) bought, Jacques!



-YL

You're a good man Charlie Brown.