I read that the first time the Sherman tank was ever used in combat, it was with the British forces at El Alamein, and that was because they were needed there in a hurry. I wondered what they looked like before the British received them, as they were originally supposed to equip an American combat unit. Is there more information on this topic?

The first Shermans to see combat were indeed British but not all were from US unit stock with some strait from the Arsenals diverted from US issue. They were delievered in OD with the standard shipping marks and WD markings in Blue. They appear to have been resprayed OD prior to shipping and look new in the avail pics. They were "Desertized" by the Commonwealth Workshops prior to issue. Pictures of them in the Depots indicates they were devoid of US markings other than reg numbers. The British added sandshields , sun compass, Brit No 19 set,sunshade rails and stowage boxes prior to issue. Later Shipments included the Sandshields on delivery from the US. The drivers hatches were also modified to open out further and the Ammo storage was increased in the A1 models to 96. British Radios were fitted and the vehicles repainted.The most common was the M4A1 with direct vision, the M3 gun tube and the M3 bogies but at least one vehicle with the M2 short barrel with counterweight and rotor sight wa recieved. The M4A2 also saw service at Alamein and had the M3 bogies and a Direct vision hull.
The Shermans were delivered to the front for the battles in British schemes (252 in the formations taking part in the 2nd Battle of Alamein) corresponding to the british official GO1650 scheme which was essentially Desert Pink with hard edged disruptive camouflage schemewith the barell lower in white along with the underside of the transmission (countershading). The countersshading was not universal and there were differences in the Disruptive patterns with some without but in the Desert pink colour Suspensions and roadwheels were sometimes left in the delivered colour of OD. Other vehicles may have had Light Stone as the base colour and certainly soft edge cam was seen along with unusual variances such as outlined colours.
I would suggest getting a copy of the following books specifically about these Shermans:

Codename Swallow by Dennis Oliver - No 4102 Mushroom Model Magazine Special

The New Breed by Dennis Oliver and Mike Starmer - The Factory Publishing (see missing lynx for a review)

Cheers
Al

Gday Tom
The materiel including the first Shermans was shipped from NY around the horn, up the Suez to arrive in early September '42 from memory. They equipped the British 8th Army in time for Rommels attack on El Alamein October 23...
Among the features would be a short M2 75mm guntube fitted with a counterweight on the barrel, direct vision visors for the driver/bow gunner and the early VVSS sans returns rollers.
They probably kept the sandshields on also... I'm not too au fait on the early desert stuff, but there are sure to be others to chip in with infinitley more knowledge than moi... ::EDIT:: Clearly!
Cheers
Brad

I can't remember where I read it but wasn't the first shipment of Shermans sunk by a U Boat and a batch destined for the US 1st Armoured were diverted on the orders of Roosevelt in order for the British to have them for Alamein.

This Sherman II was photographed on September 15th 1942



Am I right in thinking that the diverted US tanks were M4A1s? The only photo of a Sherman being unloaded already has sandshields fitted and I guess that it's a Sherman III.

David

Yes (M4A1's) & No; the diversion was to replace sunk ships but was for a US stateside unit as 1st Armd was still training. Alamein took part before the US troops left for NA.

Sanshields were not initially shipped on the vehicles but later they were. The M2 barrels have not been seen in any action shots but at least one is in the IWM archive being fitted out in Egypt. it has the early Rotor Site and is similar to the one in the IWM when it was delivered(Andrew - Sherman No 2 and the oldest surviving Sherman)
Al

This is the unloading shot which is captioned as September 9th 1942



This 2nd Armoured Brigade Sherman II was photographed a month later



David

Hi Guys,

As pert of the upgrade the Shermans were also fitted with a helmet rack. Does anyone know where this actually went. It's mention in Op Swallow but although I've asked the question before I've never had an answer

I like the idea of the short 75mm with the counter weight - anyone got a pic?lol, lol.

Cheers

Al

Alan, I have a pic somewhere but possibly not in an electronic format. I'll dig it out and scan it. It is quite possibly an IWM shot
CHeers
Al

Here Alan



This is the 5th production tank...
Does anyone know if this was the same gun and counterweight as used on initial Grants/Lees?
Brad

It's got to be an M2 75mm gun, same as the one used in the M3 Lee/Grant.
I've never seen any photos of the longer M3 75mm gun with a counterweight attached.
Cheers

jjumbo

Hi Al,

Thanks, then I can finally solve the mystery lol, lol.

Brad,

Thanks for the pic, that's a very fit looking officer on the LHS of the tank, looks a bit like Churchill!!!

Cheeers guys

Al

I thought Brad had posted the one I had but it turns out mine is the same vehicle but a different shot:

Cheers
Al

Nice pic Al, it would certainly make an unusual model.

Thnaks

Al

The vehicle is in the same config as the one in Bovington with a rotor sight. Bovingtons example had the M2 tube swapped for an M3 and I'm certain this probably did too. I have yet to see an 8th Army one with the rotor sight in service so they were pretty rare. I have seen a US one in Sicily however.
The supposed nmae "Link" is not a name but part of its shipping markings. I'm surprised Steve Zaloga got this one wrong in the Concord Caption for Brads pic (Sherman at War 2). It just goes to show that even the mega talented and knowledgeable are human.
Cheers
Al

Hi Al,

Thanks for the info. Any luck on the illusive helmet rack?

Cheers

Al

No luck Alan, I'll ask Dennis Oliver if he knows anything. My feeling is this is the addtion of the Crusader Stowage bins or tie loops on the turret bustle but that is just a guess after seeing one in a training school with the helmets neatly stowed on the bustle.
Cheers
Al

Hi Al,

Many thanks, I drew a blank too. Looking at the Shermans I thought it might just be a small bar parrell to the matlock as they seem to have hung them there too, but that was just a guess also lol, lol.

Cheers

Al