Today i watched my cousin play a game called Frontlines: Fuel of War on his Xbox 360. Frontlines is a bit of a " what if" scenario in the year 2020 where the red star alliance ( China + Russia) fights the Western Coalition ( America+ Europe+Japan) over the last drops of oil on earth.
Anyhow, i must say that i´ve never been a fan of how "what if" soviet tanks is/ has been portrayed in games whit their over the top armament/ design etc. but what really got my attention was the T-119 Black bear Battle Tank! As an avid Russo tank fan i might even say that it looks like a credible next step in the T- series.
i was so impressed whit the T-119 that i´m even considering building one. Soo...HOW DO I BUILD ONE? Is there any kit out there that is best suited as a base or is the only option a scratchbuild through-and-through?
What do you all think?
Best regards /
Christian
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T-119 Black bear Main Battle tank (what if?)
Warsawpact
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Posted: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 07:59 AM UTC
Jacques
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Posted: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 03:44 PM UTC
Now that is some pretty darn cool design work. That inspires me to do some fancy sci-fi tank designing of my own!
vanize
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Posted: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 04:05 PM UTC
I'd be willing to bet the game designers sat down with the line drawings of a real soviet tank of some sort as the basis and jazzed it up. I work with people who used to do that. the trick is to figure out which it was. who makes the game? do they have contact info? they might actually be excited to hear someone wants to build the tank and be willing to send you copies of design drawings if they are cool (some game makers are, some aren't).
arkuo14
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Posted: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 04:33 PM UTC
holy crap! that looks like a T-72 on steroids! but it looks way longer and wider than a T-72... maybe you could try bashing a chinese Type 98 hull from trumpeter and a souped up T-72 turret from tamiya.... you'd need a lot of putty and styrene sheets to work with though...
Warsawpact
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Posted: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 - 08:11 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Now that is some pretty darn cool design work. That inspires me to do some fancy sci-fi tank designing of my own!
After a quick phone call this morning i managed to borrow his game and i must say that the T-119 not only looks like a " what if" soviet tank but actually handles like a real tank as well. And the sound of the engine roaring to life when you go M1A3 hunting... i got goosebumps!
Vence & arkuo14
I´m more than willing to building one, no matter what it takes, i just GOT to build one. But quite frankly i don't know where to start. Tracking down the game designer etc.? Any suggestions? Although the bitbashing and conversion part of the build i´ve almost got figured out, sort of
Any hints or tips on how i can get this project of the ground would be greatly appreciated.
/ Christian
afv_rob
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Posted: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - 03:14 AM UTC
Funny you've brought this up, ive just complete the game and considered doing some of the tanks from it. I love how the game designers have clearly looked at Russian tank design to arrive at this, and it generally looks like a pretty realistic 'what-if' based on previous Russian tanks, and not just some total fantasy tank-it looks believable. If you like this you should check out the allied tank-looks like a merkava/abrams cross breed!
Anyway, i think the best bet would be to start with a T-72 hull, and perhaps some bits off a T-80. The rear of the turret looks kinda like that off a merkava, but with sloped sides. You going to have to do a lot of scratch building and kit bashing, but it sure would looks sweet!
Anyway, i think the best bet would be to start with a T-72 hull, and perhaps some bits off a T-80. The rear of the turret looks kinda like that off a merkava, but with sloped sides. You going to have to do a lot of scratch building and kit bashing, but it sure would looks sweet!
emroglan
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Posted: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - 04:03 AM UTC
Cool looking tank this is!
I think rather than only a T-72, it looks like the combination of several Russian vehicles (and then some more).
The front glacis plate and front mudguards look like they belong to a T-72. However, the small road wheels suggest a T-64. The round turret also looks like more T-55ish or T-62/64ish rather than the shorter, sharper turrets of T-72 and T-80. IMHO, upgraded T-55 and T-62 turrets look like this one. The rear section of the side-skirts definitely resemble the BMP-2 side skirts.
If you can find them for cheap you can try acquiring old Dragon kits to work with... or go scratch-crazy!
I think rather than only a T-72, it looks like the combination of several Russian vehicles (and then some more).
The front glacis plate and front mudguards look like they belong to a T-72. However, the small road wheels suggest a T-64. The round turret also looks like more T-55ish or T-62/64ish rather than the shorter, sharper turrets of T-72 and T-80. IMHO, upgraded T-55 and T-62 turrets look like this one. The rear section of the side-skirts definitely resemble the BMP-2 side skirts.
If you can find them for cheap you can try acquiring old Dragon kits to work with... or go scratch-crazy!
vanize
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Posted: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - 04:21 AM UTC
The game is made by THQ Games apparently:
here is their contact page:
http://www.thq.com/contact/
A carefully and very politely worded message saying what you want to do, your desire to contact the people who do design elements/artwork for the game, or simply saying would like 3 view graphics of that particular vehicle might yield results, or might not.
I know nothing about this company, and it looks like they contract out their design work all over, so there are too many variables to have a clue as to what kind of reception you'll get. they might be enthusiastic and geek out with you, or they might be suspicious that you are trying to steal trade secrets or recruit a designer away from them.
It's worth a try though.
here is their contact page:
http://www.thq.com/contact/
A carefully and very politely worded message saying what you want to do, your desire to contact the people who do design elements/artwork for the game, or simply saying would like 3 view graphics of that particular vehicle might yield results, or might not.
I know nothing about this company, and it looks like they contract out their design work all over, so there are too many variables to have a clue as to what kind of reception you'll get. they might be enthusiastic and geek out with you, or they might be suspicious that you are trying to steal trade secrets or recruit a designer away from them.
It's worth a try though.
Jacques
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Posted: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - 06:03 AM UTC
Any other screen captures of the vehicles in this game? The BMP-T (T-72 Ramka) look alike in the last picture is intriging as well...
Warsawpact
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Posted: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - 06:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Funny you've brought this up, i´ve just complete the game and considered doing some of the tanks from it. I love how the game designers have clearly looked at Russian tank design to arrive at this, and it generally looks like a pretty realistic 'what-if' based on previous Russian tanks, and not just some total fantasy tank-it looks believable. If you like this you should check out the allied tank-looks like a merkava/abrams cross breed!
Anyway, i think the best bet would be to start with a T-72 hull, and perhaps some bits off a T-80. The rear of the turret looks kinda like that off a merkava, but with sloped sides. You going to have to do a lot of scratch building and kit bashing, but it sure would looks sweet!
Indeed...the hull looks like it has been based on T-72 (80) design. I´ve had a look at the vehicles of Western Coalition but they somehow lack that, raw, Soviet look. And not to forget the sound. But i must admit that the WC´s M1A3 looks like a Merkava-Abrams hybrid.
Quoted Text
Cool looking tank this is!
I think rather than only a T-72, it looks like the combination of several Russian vehicles (and then some more).
The front glacis plate and front mudguards look like they belong to a T-72. However, the small road wheels suggest a T-64. The round turret also looks like more T-55ish or T-62/64ish rather than the shorter, sharper turrets of T-72 and T-80. IMHO, upgraded T-55 and T-62 turrets look like this one. The rear section of the side-skirts definitely resemble the BMP-2 side skirts.
If you can find them for cheap you can try acquiring old Dragon kits to work with... or go scratch-crazy!
Emre, that sound like some solid groundwork for my project. I'm planing on getting a Chinese T-98 for the broader/ longer hull ( and some t-72 hull parts), T-64 road wheels, styrene by the truckload for the skirts and the major part of the turret. I think that the turret bit will be the most challenging part of the build, but luckily for me the T-98 turret looks like a splendid start.
Quoted Text
The game is made by THQ Games apparently:
here is their contact page:
http://www.thq.com/contact/
A carefully and very politely worded message saying what you want to do, your desire to contact the people who do design elements/artwork for the game, or simply saying would like 3 view graphics of that particular vehicle might yield results, or might not.
I know nothing about this company, and it looks like they contract out their design work all over, so there are too many variables to have a clue as to what kind of reception you'll get. they might be enthusiastic and geek out with you, or they might be suspicious that you are trying to steal trade secrets or recruit a designer away from them.
It's worth a try though.
I´m gonna fire of an email, hopefully they wont think that I'm some rival games designer out to swipe their designs and ideas. Although i noticed that there´s some mentioning of " Kaos studios" what sounds to me that it might have been them that designed etc. the major part of the game and THQ merely acted as publishers. But i´ll keep you all posted.
Wish me luck /
Christian
f1matt
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Posted: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - 06:58 AM UTC
When you start this build don't forget to post some pics or even do a full blog. This looks just so darn cool. I think I'm gonna have to go out and see this game for myself. I can't play Call of Duty 4 ALL of the time. I try.
-Matt
-Matt
Warsawpact
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Posted: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - 07:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Any other screen captures of the vehicles in this game? The BMP-T (T-72 Ramka) look alike in the last picture is intriging as well...
Yes there are Jaques.
Enjoy
I give you the Next Generation of the "shilka"..... 2S10 Telker.
After doing some more gaming i found that there´s aloooot of VERY interesting "what if" soviet armor in the game. Such as the Telker, a "new" Gvozdika and the "Cossack" ( thats a next gen BTR......pure eye candy!)
Jacques
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Posted: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - 10:16 AM UTC
the2S10 Telker looks like it is based on the T-64 APC "Bulat" with a new AAA turret...that would be pretty cool if it was true. It would show that the designers really were paying attention to the real world.
What about this M1A3...any pictures? Or the US APC? This is really good stuff.
What about this M1A3...any pictures? Or the US APC? This is really good stuff.
Warsawpact
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Posted: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - 09:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
the2S10 Telker looks like it is based on the T-64 APC "Bulat" with a new AAA turret...that would be pretty cool if it was true. It would show that the designers really were paying attention to the real world.
What about this M1A3...any pictures? Or the US APC? This is really good stuff.
Yeah, the M1A3 ( or codenamed the "Mib fuller") is quite the tank. Clean looking and very silent running comparet to the T-119. Has a 120mm Hyper Velocity cannon compared to the T-119´s one-upmanships 140mm . The "wings" you can se on both sides of the turret are the decoy launchers.
This is the WC´s APC, the M4 Powell. Apparently a major joint venture whit the US/ italian army !?
Hmmm...seems like theres more people interested in this.A group build...anyone?
angellen
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Posted: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 - 11:35 PM UTC
does the back of the turret have some leopard 1 a4/ a5 features?
except that the leopard is a nato vehicle, it kinda look like, whit those sloping sides on the back... but only the sloping sides, the rest look Russian...
except that the leopard is a nato vehicle, it kinda look like, whit those sloping sides on the back... but only the sloping sides, the rest look Russian...
ninjrk
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Posted: Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 01:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I´m gonna fire of an email, hopefully they wont think that I'm some rival games designer out to swipe their designs and ideas. Although i noticed that there´s some mentioning of " Kaos studios" what sounds to me that it might have been them that designed etc. the major part of the game and THQ merely acted as publishers. But i´ll keep you all posted.
Wish me luck /
Christian
I wouldn't worry. I've inquired about a bunch of Sci-Fi game designs over the years and I've generally gotten very positive responses. Some of them aren't allowed to provide meshes but several have provided a whole bunch of documentation.
Matt
Warsawpact
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Posted: Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 03:56 AM UTC
I shure hope they dont have any weird policys when it comes to concepts/ designs that would hinder them from sharing.
It seems impossible to find any real good references on the T119, and the M1A3 for that matter, that i could REALY be of use ( walk-around-"ish" photos etc.)
What i´m going to use to build the T-119 is: the Cinese Type 98 from Trumpeter ( for hull and turret) an old tamiya T-72 kit ( for front hull parts), alot of styrene and plasticards for scratch building the major part of the Type 98 turret and the skirts, Type 98 tracks....but i cant seem to find 14x T-64 road wheels!
As for the M1A3 that i´ve decided to build once the T-119 is finished......probably the M1A2 from Dragon.
/ Christian
It seems impossible to find any real good references on the T119, and the M1A3 for that matter, that i could REALY be of use ( walk-around-"ish" photos etc.)
What i´m going to use to build the T-119 is: the Cinese Type 98 from Trumpeter ( for hull and turret) an old tamiya T-72 kit ( for front hull parts), alot of styrene and plasticards for scratch building the major part of the Type 98 turret and the skirts, Type 98 tracks....but i cant seem to find 14x T-64 road wheels!
As for the M1A3 that i´ve decided to build once the T-119 is finished......probably the M1A2 from Dragon.
/ Christian
Chas78_wa
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Posted: Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 10:06 AM UTC
What are the specifications on this "what if" T119? What makes it so special? Does it fly?
Charlie
Charlie
Reiter960
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Posted: Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 11:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
What are the specifications on this "what if" T119? What makes it so special? Does it fly?
Charlie
Well, it's special because it's first of ALL Russian MBTs to be designated with odd number. It muzzle break probably renders SABOT rounds useless and keeps infantry some good 150 feet away from the tank. Questionable What-If model especially that next generation tanks are likely to be powered by electric, hybrid, power packs and carry remotely controlled turret without any crew.
Jacques
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Posted: Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 01:36 PM UTC
Yeah, well the Russian design looks loads more realistic than the M1A3. No diss, but look at the HUGE shot trap on teh front glacis...right where every tanker in the world is trained to aim their main gun sight...center mass. Noone would put in a recess for the drivers hatch/sights...they are alwasy raised above just for the shot trap reason. Turret looks good, but I am not too sure about the quad-lights on the front hull.
That M1A3 does look like a Merkava...front side exhaust is unique to the Merkava so I guess we know where they got their inspiration from.
The T-119 looks like a re-modelled Black Eagle (Turret ERA, rear bustle autoloader). Aspects of the side skirt armor of the T-72BM/T-90 show through as well as the front glacis for a NON-era front. And nice heavy axes on the front side skirts...they look wicked, if a tad unrealistic. Wheels look like those off of the IS-5 + type...not sure which one off hand.
Oh well, it will be fun to see who can build one and who comes closest.
That M1A3 does look like a Merkava...front side exhaust is unique to the Merkava so I guess we know where they got their inspiration from.
The T-119 looks like a re-modelled Black Eagle (Turret ERA, rear bustle autoloader). Aspects of the side skirt armor of the T-72BM/T-90 show through as well as the front glacis for a NON-era front. And nice heavy axes on the front side skirts...they look wicked, if a tad unrealistic. Wheels look like those off of the IS-5 + type...not sure which one off hand.
Oh well, it will be fun to see who can build one and who comes closest.
Warsawpact
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Posted: Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 09:55 PM UTC
Still no reply from THQ!!
But anyhow.......im gonna go ahead whit the project anyway! THQ has just made it a bit more difficult for me.
I´ll start placing some orders early next week but im still unshure on how to aquire the road wheels. Tried on almost every modell-site there is but no-one seems to sell them seperatly. And buying a whole kit just for the road wheels is not gonna happen
best regards /
Christian
But anyhow.......im gonna go ahead whit the project anyway! THQ has just made it a bit more difficult for me.
I´ll start placing some orders early next week but im still unshure on how to aquire the road wheels. Tried on almost every modell-site there is but no-one seems to sell them seperatly. And buying a whole kit just for the road wheels is not gonna happen
best regards /
Christian
todorovicandreas
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Posted: Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 11:42 PM UTC
Hey Christian!
I have one T-64 kit in stash and I would send you the Roadwheels if you like. But still, you will have to cast two on your own as the T-64 has only 6 wheels per side.
I would be glad to support you on this awsome project. If you need other bits from a T-64, T-80 etc. let me know and I look if I have the parts. Of course for free!
Let me know if that helps you.
Best regards,
Andreas
I have one T-64 kit in stash and I would send you the Roadwheels if you like. But still, you will have to cast two on your own as the T-64 has only 6 wheels per side.
I would be glad to support you on this awsome project. If you need other bits from a T-64, T-80 etc. let me know and I look if I have the parts. Of course for free!
Let me know if that helps you.
Best regards,
Andreas
bbailey_33
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Posted: Monday, March 17, 2008 - 06:37 AM UTC
Not a very good "what-if" in my opinion, very cool designs though and fun to scratchbuild.... but big tanks like these will be sitting ducks for all the UAV drone and NLOS weapons that are sure to dominate the 2020 battlefield... plus by 2020, fuel and steel will at least cost double what they do today.
Warsawpact
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Posted: Monday, March 17, 2008 - 10:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hey Christian!
I have one T-64 kit in stash and I would send you the Roadwheels if you like. But still, you will have to cast two on your own as the T-64 has only 6 wheels per side.
I would be glad to support you on this awsome project. If you need other bits from a T-64, T-80 etc. let me know and I look if I have the parts. Of course for free!
Let me know if that helps you.
Best regards,
Andreas
Vielen Dank Andreas!!!
It realy warms my heart to have your support and it´s very generous of you to help out.
Your offer will be a great help. Indeed, thank you!
I´ll be in touch as soon as i get the order delivered to me.
I´ll place my order at HLJ next friday ( will hopefully arrive 3-4 weeks later) Hobby link japan has often a massive product range in stock and are resonably cheep although they are slughish in the extreme when it comes to shipping .
Quoted Text
Not a very good "what-if" in my opinion, very cool designs though and fun to scratchbuild.... but big tanks like these will be sitting ducks for all the UAV drone and NLOS weapons that are sure to dominate the 2020 battlefield... plus by 2020, fuel and steel will at least cost double what they do today.
I beg to differ when it comes to the "sitting duck" bit. There are indeed both UAv´s and tracked drones as well as highly advanced sattelite targeting systems for basic infantry and not to mentioning some nice EMP weapons.
BUT.......since this is the future there will also be great leap forward in protection that is worth having in mind. The T-119 might look very low tech but it has a vey high tech missile counter messure as well as jamming capabilities. Shared targeting system/ board radar/ Anti explosive EM field etc. makes it even harder to do damage to it an much easier to spot any danger. Even some EMP weapons struggles to do any real damage, only slowing them down for a little while.
And since the game is based around the fight for the last drops of oil on earth the vehicles seems to be hybrid powered. Crude synthetic petrol/ diesel-ish thing and nuclear power from what i´ve heard.
And steel is apparently to weak to use as armour in the future compared to other compounds.
The terms of cost /money / profit/ etc. has more or less been erased since in that epic last struggle for survival there are no companies, the monetary system has longe since broken down, and everything belongs to the state.
But hey, this is the future so.....anything goes, so to speak.