Here is my design for my military scene. It might be too big, and i might need to knock out a pair of buildings in the middle, i dont know yet. Ignore the crudeness of it, i did it with ms paint


ORIGINAL DESIGN DELETED

NEW DESIGN IN POST FURTHER DOWN

I'm familiar with most of those Verlinden buildings. All look to me like buildings that would be attached to other buildings, like in a downtown, not with trees in between.

Also, I don't know what's going on with the Panther facing the Marder, but with Americans basically next to the Panther.

Plus, I don't get how the government ruin is at the end of this street, basically blocking it. It makes this a long dead end road, and it seems that it's a cross between a city and a country road.

I think you have to rework it pretty heavily. But, that's just my opinion. Take it for what it is.

Rob

Looks to be huge, with too much going on and too much dead space. I'm wondering, too, if all those disparate German vehicles would be in such close proximity and that they would have boxed themselves in like that.

Mike,

For me, it appears to lack any real focal point.

And going by this plan, with buildings on both sides of the dio, it seems to me like you run the risk of not being able to see much of what's going on in the middle (having to peer around or over buildings and trees to look at the Ausf. F, for example).

If I were you, I'd get rid of the buildings on one side of the street entirely - maybe just have some rubble there at the front instead, to "imply" the presence of buildings along that one side of the street - any dio is after all just a "snapshot" small part of an imagined larger whole.

And sometimes "less is more".

Just my take.

- Steve

It's ENORMOUS,!

When you're designing a dio you have to ask what the story is and what part of the story do you want to tell. There are some great huge dios, but they are hard to pull off. You should think about it in terms of composing a picture, look at some historical paintings, not just WW2, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
You could easily divide up your drawing into 4 or 5 smaller dios and display them together.

I AGREE WITH AL LA FLECHE. THERE ARE TWO DEAD AREAS AT THE UPPER LEFT AND LOWER RIGHT CORNERS. YOU DIDN'T MENTION WHAT SCALE YOU ARE USING AND THAT WILL AFFECT THE SIZE OF COURSE. A DIORAMA IS SUPPOSED TO TELL A STORY. THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO PORTRAY AND YOU MIGHT COME UP WITH A BETTER ARRANGEMENT. I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING MORE OF YOUR DIO AND TO SEE WHAT YOU COME UP WITH.

thanks for the input guys. this is my first drawing for a dio. i have never built one before

i am going to go back to the drawing board

my idea was for american soldiers to try to take over a heavily guarded german town. kind of a last stand as most of the buildings were german government building.

i like the idea of just using one side, so you can see it clearly, my biggest problem though (which is why i spaced the buildings our originally, is because it seems the destroyed buildings by verlinden that i have are all destroyed on the same side, so it would looks silly i thought if all the buildings were destroyed on the left side only, but the right sides were intact. i have to figure out how to get around that, even if it is to find another manufacturer that has it destroyed on the other side. this way i can put 2 of them next to each other and then have a large gap in between a third, if you know what i mean.

in this design the upper left corner and the lower right hand corner would be nothing, in fact, i was going to make the dio on an angle. For the building blockign the street, i didnt know how to end the city, so i did that, but i dont need to end the city, i can just have the street going on as if there is more to see at a later date or in another picture.

Mike,

Pat hits the mail right on the head - large dios are VERY difficult to pull off, especially at your first attempt (you have to walk before you can run).

That's not meant as a put-down comment (and you score a perfect 10 for ambition ) but I honestly think you'd be much better off starting off on a "one tank - one building" basis (plus a few figures and a tree on each maybe). That would also immediately solve your worry about all the buildings you have being demolished on one side - they'd all be in separate scenes so it wouldn't be an issue!

In any case thanks for sharing your ideas, and keep us posted on how things develop.

- Steve

Ola Youpey

Well I will not tell you that it is very ambitious and really big what you are trying to pull here. The people who posted before me already said the most important stuff and some great lessons are already there.

My tip would be (and that is the succes formula of some of the most brilliant diorama's) is to take as much space as neccesary to tell a story. Basically the best way to start is as Steve points out. Start off with a building... I have seen your work on the Rathaus and that looks pretty good. And that should be a nice central point of your diorama. Make some road in front of it.. Just big enough for a vehicle and some space for a few figures.... A nice bit of roadside... maybe some little bushes... a tree if you like. Add a vehicle and some figures. Not all dio's have to tell a story... it can just as well be a nice scene. Couple of battleweary soldiers who are just eating something does not really tell a story but still it can be a nice scene. Or a group of soldiers all looking in the same direction... again not really a story but could still be a nice scene.
A scene like that would already have some good challenges in them. A battered building like the Rathaus would leave a spectacular amount of rubble, Furniture etc. With the roadside you get practice in groundworks like grass and bushes. Make a convincing road... and of course figure and vehicle painting and eventually also placement of the figures.
The problem with big diorama's is that you will have more space to fill... and that is not always done convincing enough. I have seen potential brilliant big dio's seen ruined because the builder wanted it finished too fast... Resulting in only half the result that it could be.

I think it would be a fun thing to see what information you can pick out of this thread and some good ideas are given and maybe make a new drawing. What usually helps me is taking a piece of paper... and placing all the items I want on the dio onto the paper... slide them a bit around till I think I have the right setting and then draw a square around it... or an oval. or a cirkel... that will be the basis of your dio... Even then when you have the dimensions of the basis... you can still shuffle the figures and vehicle and building a bit just till you are fully satisfied.

Looking forward to your work. With friendly greetz

Robert Blokker

Hi Robert both your examples tell a story ....just not the whole beginning, middle and end, it's not necessary- but as you say they show a scene from a story.

Ola Pat

In a way yes it tells a story you are right about that... But in this case I'm more talking about soldiers doing pretty much nothing. Just sitting, eating or watching. Pretty much everything that is turned into a dio is a story then.
With story I meant more the action type of story. Be it prepping a gun to fire. Walking around with a huge load of trophies. Celebrating a hit. Basically people that are active. That was the type of story I'm more or less reffering to. A dio never tells a complete story... just that little slice. The moment from which that slice is taken makes the story strong or not.

Maybe you should ask yourself "is there a way I can get the same idea across using less stuff". In 1/35 scale this diorama would be huge. Even in 1/72 there's a lot of stuff going on over a wide area. You could perhaps tighten the focus up a bit, get rid of some of the peripheral stuff and concentrate on using only enough to get the idea across. You don't have to create a big town to give the impression of a big town.

Mike,
An idea of 2 cents worth. Try arranging the buildings on the back side of the road together. Many city streets are not straight and curve to the lay of the land. As far as the buildings destroyed on the same side, cast some plaster slabs and re-create the buildings you desire.

NEW DESIGN. I am not sure if i am going to keep the stug and or the marder. probably one but maybe not both.
please let me know what you think

I think you should draw in scale, at least close to it. Assuming the Marder is correct scale-wise, the two vehicles in the street couldn't possibly fit one beside the other. That whole part looks overcrowded anyway, I believe two tanks are more than enough.

Try playing with cardboard cut-outs in the exact scale and chess pawns to represent soldiers (those in my favorite set are sized exactly like 1/35 humans) to figure things out. That's what I do all the time.

Hi Mike,

Not wanting to rain on your parade but I think you are totally overstretching yourself here. You are planning a massive diorama that will take months of work to complete, and as your first dio I would very strongly suggest you scale things down!

I was exactly the same when I started building dio's, having big and exciting ideas of huge rolling battlegrounds and numberous tanks. However, its only when you try and build the things that you really start to understand the level of work involved.

The best way would be to just build some vingettes, having your groundwork little bigger than the AFV you want to display, perhaps with some room for a couple of figs if you want.
I first got a set of wooden drinks coasters and built several small little scenes using these as bases. Each one was a manageable little project that I didn't lose interest in and allowed me to learn basic groundwork and compositional skills before tackling larger projects. Even with some experience I keep them as small as neccesarry as i'm aware of the work needed!
If you are intent on building this thing the size you want why not break it down into several parts, ie. build one building as a little stand alone scene, but with the option of adding other parts of the scene to it later. Or tone it down with one building with the GI's hiding inside and a german tank and some troops outside about to be ambushed.

I wish you every success if you do decide to push ahead with this scene, but i'd seroiously suggest toning it down a little.

James

P.S. A big rule of diorma building is don't have features parallel with the sides of the diorama, ie. all your roads and buildings currently line up exactly with the edges. Put a slight angle on everything to make it more natural looking and easier on the eye.

Hi

I'd whole heartedly agree with the comments James has made.

If you want to get some idea of scale and size rather than drawing in what looks like Microsoft's Paint you could download SketchUp and use that.

Its 3D, you can draw in scale and with a little bit of self taught training its very easy to use.

It uses what we call the "push pull" method. Draw a shape and push or pull on it to give it height, shape it. That way you can even see it for sight lines etc.

It's free for personal use and includes on line tutorials. They even have a "3D Warehouse" full of pre made models you can download and use.

The Pro version will cost you but the free version has everything you'll need.

http://www.sketchup.com/index.php?title=2
Alan

Hi

Having said that, SketchUp is probably best on a largish scale project. For starters it's probably just as good to use pen and paper, sketching it out, but in scale.

You can even get 1/35 scale "rulers" to print out and use to help in planning if need be.

But like James said, start by doing a few smaller projects or you'll risk running out of steam on something this big as your firstproject.

Alan

thanks for the input guys. i am downloading sketchup now.

i know this is going to take forever,i was figuring close to a year. the way i have been working on it is 1 small section at a time. for example i am working on the rathaus now, then i will finish the panzer, and hten i will build the street section for the panzer in front of the rathaus and build all the destruction. so i will be building it as a small dio, then i will be adding on to it.

i appreciate everyone's input on this. although i have never built a dio or pretty much anything military before working on the rathaus on starting my tank, i have been modeling for 20 years, so i dont typically rush things as i know they take a long time. plus i have a very limited area to display my dio, so the dio is only going to be allow to fit in the area i have, which is why i cant really make a bunch of small ones. i am figuring out how much space i have and i will build only to that much space. if my concept is too large for that, then i will have to cut it down, starting with the left side

as far as the stug and the aus f on the same road next to each other, i didnt think it would fit either, i put them both there in case it would fit, but i was assuming i would only keep one.

if you guys have any more tips on this as i go, i definitely appreciate it

(oh and it was done in mspaint because it was all i have, but i am going to redraw it in sketchup.)

It's getting there, but I have to agree with the others. Still too much going on. No real focus to the whole thing. The parallel edges (maybe just a product of using "paint"). I still don't understand all the grass around the buildings that are essentially city buildings.

I think if you sort of cut the dio in half and focus on the left side of the dio, that's where you have the best story going on.

Dioramas take a long time. I spent at least 3 months on my "Road to Nijmegen" one (I think that's still in my kitmaker gallery, it just has 1 tank, 1 jeep, and 1 universal carrier, plus 19 figs). One with buildings takes even longer. If I built that one you have mapped out, it would probably take me close to a year. After a few months, I'd lose momentum on the whole thing and want to scrap it/put it on hold so I could tackle some new idea. All of this may just be a personal issue of mine, but I do know of others who have the same issue.

Start small and work your way big would be my advice.

Rob

Mike,

I know what you feel planning your first dio... My first project was very big (but still smaller than yours...) and I must tell you that recently I've disassembled that diorama... It's very difficult to build very big diorama and keep it:
1. Clear (with every detail visible and in place)
2. Free of historical / thechnical / tactic mistakes (i.e. placing german heavy gunner so close to a sniper may affect in loosing both in case of heavy weapon usage against sniper or gunner).
3. not too crowded / not crowded enough .
I became a fan of really small dioramas - check some works of Christer Johansson (callsign Roy) he's my small-diorama guru

Anyway... I admire you're ambition and "swimming in a deep water" from the beginning! .

Have fun planning/building/sharing!
Andrzej

hi mike

i can only tell you how i started.
my first dio was ( and still is ) huge, even in scale 1/72
i planned so many details that the planning had to be chanched every day.
i am still building on it for a year now. and have at least a year to go.
i am learning new things every time i work on it.
i better show what i mean:



the picture shows the progress after 4 months. there are 31 figures added in the mean time, and the groundwork is in its final stage.
what i am trying to say is have fun and learn. after all that is what this HOBBY is about.

good luck and respect for your enthusiasme.

john