Hi Guys,

OK here's a question, but first some info:

I was reading some stuff in British Sherman Tanks by Denis Oliver, as you do, and there was mention of the M4A3 Sherman Mk IV. I always thought they never went operational but 1 Armoured Group of 15th Army Group shows 33 Sherman IV's received ex 'Units and Formations' between 11 May 44 and 2 May 45.

So my question is would the old Tamiya M4A3 fit the bill with a bit of tarting up?

I always though only about 8 were used for experimental purposes. There is no mention of the actual units that had them, does anyone have any further info or pics?

Many thanks

Al

I have heard similar details of Sherman IVs being turned in at wars end by Canadian units.
None ever "issued"! When the need is there a Sherman is a Sherman either from a depot or recovered from the field.
As to your question, for the latter time frame anyways, I see no reason Tamiya's M4A3 could not be used.
Love to see it, please keep us posted.



Doug

Hi Doug,

I have the old Tamiya kit I build as a US tank 10/12 years ago. The basic vehicle seeems reasonably sound so I was thinking of giving it a re-vamp and finishing it off. I though about this before but then gave up the idea when I thought there were only about 8. This data would seem to imply that there were a limited number operational so 33 is good enough for me.

Cheers

Al

Alan, my understanding of these is that they were M4A3 105 as the M4 105 105 were no longer available. Given there are Brit/Commonwealth/Polish HVSS 105 I'm not 100% on this theory. They may also have been M4A3 76
Cheers
Al

Hi Al,

Thanks for then info. They are listed as 'possibles' in Dennis's book on the strength of the record. No mention is made of type other than Mk IV's

Al

Hi Alan,

Unless you see an actual picture of the Sherman MkIV in service, I would say no. All too often in military records the wrong tank designations are given. Also pictures are captioned wrongly, as in the case of the Firefly MkIVC seen in several publications dating from the 1970's.

I believe that only 5 M4A3 tanks were shipped to England for testing and evaluation. These would not have been issued because there would have been no spare parts support for the Ford engine.

Phil

Hi Phil,

Yes, I'd always thought that too. However, if 33 are listed then I think it's possible, especially given the shortage of tanks and tank parts. From all that I have read this problem increases as the war went on so it is possible these were salvaged or scrounged from the Americans. Can't say for sure but the number quoted in the book is much greater than I originally thought.

The Sherman Register only shows 7 all being non operational. Perhaps more information or better still a pic will come to light, never say never lol, lol.

Cheers

Al

Given this was the MTO the A3 was not avail in QTY and may have been vehicles transferred for conversion to Firefly or as I said earlier 105 variants

Hi Al,

You may well be right, I'll keep it on the back burner and see if anything else pops up.

Thanks

Al

Hey Al,
According to my very dog-eared copy of Hunnicutt's bible, "Sherman - a History of the American Medium Tank", there were only 7 M4A3's ever allocated for Lend Lease and they were given to the UK.
Unfortunately, the book neglects to say whether they were armed with the 75mm, 76mm or 105mm guns.
Some U.S. M4A3's were converted to Fireflys late in 1944-45 but they were never issued or used IIRC.
That doesn't mean that the 33 Sherman IV's mentioned weren't recovered from the battlefield or scrounged or borrowed from U.S. units.
Canadian crews recovered 3 New Zealand Shermans that were abandoned near Ortona and did so elsewhere in Italy and N.W. Europe.
U.S. units were reported to have borrowed vehicles from British stockpiles when there were shortages or delays in delivery.
I guess you could say that anything goes when it comes needing replacements or finders keepers, losers weepers !!!
I'd be interested if you find any information or confirmation of any British units using the M4A3.
Cheers

jjumbo

Here's that info on the American Fireflys:

http://freespace.virgin.net/shermanic.firefly/home1.htm

Cheers

jjumbo

Thanks, was aware of that but the Brits converted a number of Fireflies in the MTO and given the US was issued Fireflies in the MTO right at the wars end these may have been supplied for further conversion. Only an eductaed guess but I'd say the chances of a Brit A3 seeing combat or issue to a combat unit as zero (now sit back and wait for the photos showing one in use).
CHeers
Al

Hi John and Al,

Thanks for the thoughts and the link, who knows