Gday all

I'm just putting this idea out there for the moment. Has been rattling about in my noggin for a while...
My plan is this. I want to have an M4 Sherman having just run through a natural water course in a field, having just run through the ditch and is gunning it up the other side and onto less saturated ground. Possible location would be during the US push across France during late August/September 1944. There were tremendous rains that turned fields into bogs.
The mental picture I have is a transition from a well grassed but marshy field down into churned, flooded, muddy ditch, then mudded tank tracks in the grass of the far slope showing 'exit' points of previously passing Shermans back onto more solid ground again. This is where the tank will be placed, on the upslope.
Want to experiment with a few things such as 'disturbed' muddy water, loose 'flicked' mud spatters etc.
Any thoughts? I'm not aiming to have a large base, as the expanse will be wasted. Just enough to give the viewer all the info needed. How about a central ditch, running (slightly angled to) parallel with the long side of the base, and the highest ground being the entry side? It could slope up on the exit side but not as severely, just so as there is not too much symmetry either side...
Had a thought. Would the tankers drive the tank perpendicular to the ditch/flooded area to lessen the distance to ford, or more diagonal to lessen the steepness of the slope? I guess it is horses for courses... This decision could untimately decide the base size and composition, hey!
Brad

Hi Bradley,

Weren't you already working on a muddy diorama with Sherman? What happened to that one?

Your new idea sounds interesting. Perhaps a tanker would drive on diagonals if carefully crossing the boggy slope, or would gun it and go straight forward if under-fire. I think it also depends on the angle of elevation and the overall size of the slope portion you are including in your dio. I don't think a tanker would bother going diagonally if the ditch is shallow or the angle of elevation is small.

Look forward to seeing progress,
Chas

I think a tank would go straight through a ditch. All the references I've seen have been at 90 degrees or very close.
I can see a wheel vehicle going at an angle because the four points of contact would be better suited to this style. With a tank track you have two very long points of contact and if you angle it you do a couple of things. You tip the tank at an odd angle and with the high center of gravity of a sherman it wouldn't suit it well. Secondly you would shorten the distance and as the tank tips the weight of the tank sits on two short sections for longer and the weight could really stress the suspension. Lastly, if the ditch isn't really wide I think you would run the risk of digging in the front end because a heavy tank won't 'roll' through the bottom of the ditch.

I think - straight on.

That'n is still up on the hoist mate! All good practice
Your argument is sound and reasonable too. I think I have to decide on the nature of moment; meaning is the tank moving to the front, on manouevers, in a skirmish etc etc.
I reckon if I make it a 4AD tank during the fighting around Arracourt or similar I could have it involved in a skirmish with the tank buttoned up. But , maybe I want to show the Sherman as one of a platoon that has forded the furrow at the same place, hence some work on churned muddy 'exit' tracks.
What if I could show a Sherman just heading to the battle front, with tank commander hanging out of the turret looking at his tanks progress through the mud, but really force an angle on the tank for effect? Having the Sherman 'charge' the ditch could result in one side sinking more, really adding to this... Also, I could maybe have a Dough watching from some relative highground at its progress.
"The little Sherman that could"
Brad
:: EDIT:: Sorry Scott I have only just now seen your reply, and that sure does make sense. The only trouble would be the laying it out aesthetically on a base...

Brad,

Much depends on the actual size (width) of the ditch, and the angle of the slopes on either side. If the angle is to steep, and the ditch not to wide, the Sherman could get stuck if the nose buries in the opposite bank. As per Scott's reasoning, I doubt the Sherman attempting a diagonal approach. If the bank is high and steep enough to make a straight crossing problematic, a diagonal aprroach would risk toppling the tank over.... . Now that has just given me an idea for use with a Dragon Wagon... .

If you go for the 'Platoon crossing' scenario, perhaps a prepared position, with ditching beams/logs or fascines would be an idea? Some marker lines to show the crossing point? Some GI's taking bets... He, that's an idea for a title: "10 Bucks says he ain't gonna make it.."

In a skirmish it would probably go full trottlle, in as straight a line as it is going. No time to check

Looking forward to progress Brad

Henk

Brad, i can't ad anything more to this discussion but i want to show you a dio done by two of my friends, perhaps it can serve as inspiration

FWIW
Cheers
Claude

Brad, cant add anything here to help you out, but I have to say to Claude's two friends, AWESOME DIO....Great work in all aspects of the dio..Keep On Modelin !

Agreed!
Great work there Claude, mon ami. That is sort of the idea I am going for, sans the actual river or foliage. I'm thinking grasses and mud... And the odd soldier. I do like the murky colour of the river, and the differing heights of action.
Cheers
Brad

SUPURB DIO!!!!!!! Do you have any more pics of it you can share? WOW!!!!!!!

Hey guys! This is Brad's thread !! i admit, it's my fault, i started it.
Brad will forgive me, i'm sure.

Here is a link to ML where the two builders,
Sven Frisch and Marin Roth, presented the dio some time ago

Dio

Enjoy

Hmm it seems to be a dead link.

No,the link is not dead, but i inserted one http to much :-)

Here is it again
Dio

Thats better! Thanks for sharing!

This is my first effort at a sloppy marshy field some time ago.

The grass is still a little garish... Unfortunately this base has disappeared during a house move...

No pic?

Would love to see you recover it from the move.

Sorry mate! I'm a bit rusty on the kitmaker links...
I'll try again



Dug up another more recent one

Brad,

Yea I remember this one. Brilliant puddles. If you ever find it, it would be good to see the resin puddles extend all the way to the left hand edge of the frame, to indicate that the puddle continues beyond the boundaries of the diorama.

Great job and I really hope to see it found and finished!

Chas

Gday Chas
Do you mean the left edge of the top diorama picture? If so, I think I ran into the problem of the wrong coloured framework. What I mean is that having the puddle run to the edge would have two very similar colours next to each other. Maybe a light tan colour for the frame would work better and provide more contrast to both the mud and puddles...

I"m really getting fired up on this base idea now.
I have changed the idea slightly, and would like some feedback. I have seen a pic of a lead Sherman running into mud trouble at the head of a column, and the tank commander turned, waving his hand to stop the tanks following his passage...
I would like a similar idea with the TC signalling "Halt!" to an unseen but following column, but have the tank 'nosing in' to the muddy furrow, in danger of bogging...
Thoughts? (again!)
Brad

Brad, i don't know if a TC had the time or reaction or instinct to stop the following colonne so shortly after his own tank would be pulled down by the mud.
I see him leaning way forward trying to get a better look what's immediatly in front of his tank.

Cheers
Claude