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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Tools on German armor question
Roadkill
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Antwerpen, Belgium
Joined: June 09, 2002
KitMaker: 2,029 posts
Armorama: 822 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 08:21 PM UTC
I decided to start on my (old) Tamiya PzKfw IV/D kit and build it OOB (I know about the errors on the kit, but what the heck, it seems like fun



I never did German armor before so this is a first for me (Duh). Anyway, I noticed that German tanks have a lot more tools on there tanks then allied ones (like those SS chape things, jacks, ...). When I do allied then I paint the tools seperate but I wonder about this tank, because there seem to be so much is maybe better to paint them on the model? I wonder how you lot do it?

Next thing to do is decide to build it as a dessert tank or Polish/French campain tank, what do you think, I like both styles

FAUST
#130
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Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: June 07, 2002
KitMaker: 8,797 posts
Armorama: 4,190 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 08:29 PM UTC
Ola Ronny

I usually paint my tools separate and then stick them onto my vehicle. but everybody has his own method for it.
I like the dessert tank and especially for the rack on the rear deck with the jerrycans and the helmets but that`s my opinion

SS-74
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Vatican City
Joined: May 13, 2002
KitMaker: 3,271 posts
Armorama: 2,388 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 09:25 PM UTC
Ronny I do the paint when it's attached on the vehicle. drybrush steel color on them, if you miss a spot here or there, it's fine, because assume some of the tools will be leaved on when doing the field painting job.

And I evern seen some tanks that have camo overlapping the tools, because some of the camos were 100% applied in field.

have fun, I am going to get this tank and do for barbarosa as well i think.
leogunner
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: September 16, 2002
KitMaker: 147 posts
Armorama: 109 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 09:52 PM UTC
It really is up to you. I have had good results both ways. Like SS says a lot of the tools were over-painted with field applied cammo paint but through wear and tear a lot of it gets scraped off. Good luck!
slodder
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: February 22, 2002
KitMaker: 11,718 posts
Armorama: 7,138 posts
Posted: Monday, May 05, 2003 - 12:13 AM UTC
Here's the prerequisite - It Depends.
I will do some on the vehicle and some off. If they are going to be a pain to get to or scream for extra detail I will do it off the AFV. It goes about 70/30 on/off.
One trick I've seen and used is to slip a piece of foil or something flexible and thin under the tool after it has been attached and painted base color. Then you have masked it off for painting wood or a secondary color without fear of messing up the base coat.

I'd like to see you do a DAK version. Haven't seen you do any desert dioramas yet.
Roadkill
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Antwerpen, Belgium
Joined: June 09, 2002
KitMaker: 2,029 posts
Armorama: 822 posts
Posted: Monday, May 05, 2003 - 12:15 AM UTC
Scott,

You haven't see me do much yet at all, lol #:-)

I like your tip, I will give it a go

Dessert, hay, hmmm, I also have a Crusader II whith PE, hmmm wich one, lets flip a coin .....
Neh I will suprise you
slodder
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: February 22, 2002
KitMaker: 11,718 posts
Armorama: 7,138 posts
Posted: Monday, May 05, 2003 - 12:25 AM UTC
Can't wait for the surprise - It's kinda like my birthday or Christmas!!

Did a PzIV ever tangle with a Crusader II???????
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Monday, May 05, 2003 - 02:21 AM UTC
Just use common sense when painting the tank tools. Think about the various tools in your tool box and trunk of your car. It doesn't really hamper the use of a shovel or axe if it is painted, but think about the tire jack of your car. Would you slap a thick coat of paint all over that and still expect it to work properly? Same deal with the various wrenches, most of them get constant use and it would be a real bother if the wrench no longer fit tightly on the bolts it was designed to tighten.
mj
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Illinois, United States
Joined: March 16, 2002
KitMaker: 1,331 posts
Armorama: 569 posts
Posted: Monday, May 05, 2003 - 03:52 AM UTC
I have to agree with Scott, that it really depends. When I first got back into modeling, I painted every tool before attachment, and you know how much fun it is trying to get painted plastic to stick to painted plastic . Now, unless it will be very difficult to get to, I paint the majority of tools after the base color. I use microbrushes mostly for this, and apply a thinned flat black base, and then go over with steel, drybushing mostly. I think it comes out looking pretty good.

Mike

Easy_Co
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: September 11, 2002
KitMaker: 1,933 posts
Armorama: 985 posts
Posted: Monday, May 05, 2003 - 06:54 AM UTC
go for the desert option the weathering can be a challenge,i painted my marder tools desert yellow then got to work with the panzer grey, i think the contrasts look very effective.
WARLORD
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
HISTORICUS FORMA
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Warszawa, Poland
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 1,923 posts
Armorama: 868 posts
Posted: Monday, May 05, 2003 - 07:41 AM UTC
I prefer painting tools separate. Are you sure that pzkfw IV took part in polish or french campain. I think that in Poland German were using only pzkfw I and II. I'll have to check it.
Roadkill
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Antwerpen, Belgium
Joined: June 09, 2002
KitMaker: 2,029 posts
Armorama: 822 posts
Posted: Monday, May 05, 2003 - 08:56 AM UTC
Warlord,

The markings provided with the kit are for the Polish / French campaign.

I know for a fact that they where used in France because I have a dated picture 1940 in the vicinity of Paris.

I am also playing with the idea of making a Belgium campain dio/vignette so I askt a German AVF (ML) forum, and this is the answer


Quoted Text

Ronny,

Yes there were Ausf D Pz. IVs used in May 1940 in Belgium.

For the invasion of Poland on 1 September 1939 there were 211 Pz IVs in the monventory. These were all Ausf. As [35], Bs[42] and Cs[134]. The delivery of the Ausf D began in October 1939. In the battles in Poland 19 of the Pz. IVs were lost leaving 192 with the troops. For the invasion of the Holland, Belgium and France beginning on 10 May 1940 the German arrmy had a total of 290 Pz IVs of which means that 98 Ausf Ds were present in the Army by May 1940. Here is a listing by division of the allocation of the Pz. IVs for May 1940:
1PD with 40
2PD with 32
3PD with 26
4PD with 24
5PD with 32
6PD with 31
7PD with 24
8PD with 23
9PD with 16
10PD with 32
Reserve with 10

From this I would judge that each of the 10 Panzer Divisions had some Ausf. Ds.

Now as to which were in Belgium, all were to pass through Belgium with the exception of the 9. Panzer-Division which was entirely in Holland thru 15 May and then they were transported to the area of Dunkirk.

I hope this information helps.

Best regards
 _GOTOTOP