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Early M4
UncaBret
Joined: May 11, 2008
KitMaker: 767 posts
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Posted: Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 04:09 AM UTC
Okay, so I have the early gun mantlet and air cleaners left over from the Tamiya M4A1. I'm thinking of putting them on a Tamiya M4 (no applique). What else would I need to do to make an early/ North Africa Sherman?
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Armorama: 11,675 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 10:27 AM UTC
Hi Bret,
Can't speak for the American Army but the Brits only had the M4A1 Sherman Mk II and M4A2 Sherman Mk III in N Africa.
Here's a couple of pics from WW2 in colour
http://www.ww2incolor.com/german/?page=1
I don't know where the pics were taken but the first one has a M4 DV (i think) and looks like it may be N Africa, given the Lee's in line
Same detail with the second although I think this may be Italy or possiby Algeria
That said, I may be wrong on both counts.
Anyway hope this helps.
Al
Can't speak for the American Army but the Brits only had the M4A1 Sherman Mk II and M4A2 Sherman Mk III in N Africa.
Here's a couple of pics from WW2 in colour
http://www.ww2incolor.com/german/?page=1
I don't know where the pics were taken but the first one has a M4 DV (i think) and looks like it may be N Africa, given the Lee's in line
Same detail with the second although I think this may be Italy or possiby Algeria
That said, I may be wrong on both counts.
Anyway hope this helps.
Al
UncaBret
Joined: May 11, 2008
KitMaker: 767 posts
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Posted: Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 10:50 AM UTC
Great pics! Thanks for the link.
jowady
Joined: June 12, 2006
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
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KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 683 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 01:12 PM UTC
I have seen the first pic labeled as being in England, and the second is most likely the Desert Training Center in the American Southwest, I believe that the same photo in B&W apeared in a recent issue of After the Battle that dealt with that subject.
John
John
toadman1
Vendor
Joined: July 20, 2004
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Posted: Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 01:32 PM UTC
The top photo in Al's post was taken at Ft. Knox in mid-42. The bottom one as John said was taken at the Desert Training Center in California/Arizona.
For a N. Africa(N.A.) M4, you should be looking at converting the glacis to have direct vision slots as this would have been the primary M4 variant for U.S. forces in N. A. Maybe at the end of the campaign they received some w/out d.v. You'll want either the three piece differential cover or the early cast one piece type. M3 Lee type suspension would be preferred but like the non-d.v. driver's hoods, some may have appeared w/the later heavy duty suspension prior to the end of the N.A. campaign. You'd then want to modify the track support skid to one of the earlier types. Track types would be T51 or T54E1.
Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures
For a N. Africa(N.A.) M4, you should be looking at converting the glacis to have direct vision slots as this would have been the primary M4 variant for U.S. forces in N. A. Maybe at the end of the campaign they received some w/out d.v. You'll want either the three piece differential cover or the early cast one piece type. M3 Lee type suspension would be preferred but like the non-d.v. driver's hoods, some may have appeared w/the later heavy duty suspension prior to the end of the N.A. campaign. You'd then want to modify the track support skid to one of the earlier types. Track types would be T51 or T54E1.
Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures
UncaBret
Joined: May 11, 2008
KitMaker: 767 posts
Armorama: 672 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 04:42 PM UTC
Hmmmmmmmm. Maybe I'll make it a little later version, in Italy or something.
Basically, I was wanting to do something with a different paint scheme. Everything I've built so far(since starting back) has been boring old one color stuff.
My reference library has long since gone away. I used to have quite a few Squadron/Signal, AFV Profile, etc...
Basically, I was wanting to do something with a different paint scheme. Everything I've built so far(since starting back) has been boring old one color stuff.
My reference library has long since gone away. I used to have quite a few Squadron/Signal, AFV Profile, etc...
HONEYCUT
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 4,002 posts
Armorama: 2,947 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 09:29 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Okay, so I have the early gun mantlet and air cleaners left over from the Tamiya M4A1.
Hey Bret, do you mean the Tasca M4A1?
I would go an early M4 but break up the OD monotone with some serious dust/dirt accumulation... That combined with some creative stowage will produce a good kit me reckons. Not too many early M4s modelled as far as I have seen...
Brad
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
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Posted: Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 10:13 PM UTC
Hi John and Chris,
Thanks for the heads up on the pics, I wondered where they were taken. Both actually remind me of different parts of Algiers lol, lol.
Al
Thanks for the heads up on the pics, I wondered where they were taken. Both actually remind me of different parts of Algiers lol, lol.
Al
HONEYCUT
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 4,002 posts
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Posted: Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 10:32 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextOkay, so I have the early gun mantlet and air cleaners left over from the Tamiya M4A1.
Hey Bret, do you mean the Tasca M4A1?
Um, I'll slap my own head here Bret! I'm stuck in a 1/35 world...
stoney
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 480 posts
Armorama: 399 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 05:16 AM UTC
if you wanted to break it up a bit you could do an italian sherman with the brown and green camo. Not to wild but it's a change, try the silly putty mask, great fun.
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 08:26 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Okay, so I have the early gun mantlet and air cleaners left over from the Tamiya M4A1. I'm thinking of putting them on a Tamiya M4 (no applique). What else would I need to do to make an early/ North Africa Sherman?
Apparently all the US operated Sherman tanks that saw combat in North Africa were M4A1's (though some M4A2's were supplied to the British). These M4A1's were a mix of direct vision and periscopic hood models, and both early and late suspension bogies could be seen. M4's were available for the build up for the Sicily landings, but don't seem to have fought in Tunisia.
I haven't seen Tamiya's 1/48th scale M4, but I've been told it duplicates the front hull errors of its larger 1/35th scale brother. The hood and antenna mount castings are based on the M4A4 not the M4.
UncaBret
Joined: May 11, 2008
KitMaker: 767 posts
Armorama: 672 posts
Posted: Monday, May 26, 2008 - 03:21 AM UTC
I'm leaning toward Italy/Sicily with the green and brown.
What (if any) camo schemes did the British use on M4s in Italy?
I really need to start building up my library again. How good are Zaloga's books considered to be?
What (if any) camo schemes did the British use on M4s in Italy?
I really need to start building up my library again. How good are Zaloga's books considered to be?
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 11:20 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm leaning toward Italy/Sicily with the green and brown.
What (if any) camo schemes did the British use on M4s in Italy?
I really need to start building up my library again. How good are Zaloga's books considered to be?
His books are superb. The reference books are extremely well-researched, and his modeling books for Osprey are among the best in the series. Concord has several titles by him in their large format photo books, and Osprey has some in their New Vanguard series as well.
IronDivision
Joined: April 03, 2008
KitMaker: 45 posts
Armorama: 31 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 09:02 AM UTC
You might try our website for an early M4. We've just released the M4 Direct Vision conversion (#48023) for the Tamiya M4/M4A1.
[url]http://www.topgunmilitary.com/48thProductList.html
[url]http://www.topgunmilitary.com/48thProductList.html
toadman1
Vendor
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,141 posts
Armorama: 950 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 12:43 PM UTC
Hey Bob,
I just made your link easier to use:
1/48 Product List
Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures
I just made your link easier to use:
1/48 Product List
Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures
UncaBret
Joined: May 11, 2008
KitMaker: 767 posts
Armorama: 672 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 03:34 PM UTC
Quoted Text
You might try our website for an early M4. We've just released the M4 Direct Vision conversion (#48023) for the Tamiya M4/M4A1.
[url]http://www.topgunmilitary.com/48thProductList.html
I have been looking at and seriously considering your late M4A3 hull and 76mm turret.
Would there possibly be any M4/M10/etc. tracks coming in the future? I'm getting a little tired of the same old rubber chevron. The steel cleats would be cool. And duckbills. I've seen a few other AM tracks, but none have really excited me.
UncaBret
Joined: May 11, 2008
KitMaker: 767 posts
Armorama: 672 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 03, 2008 - 05:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
You'd then want to modify the track support skid to one of the earlier types.
Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures
Would the HobbyBoss suspension fit easily on the Tamiya kit? (I was kicking around the idea of getting the HB kit and Top Gun turret and chassis.)
UncaBret
Joined: May 11, 2008
KitMaker: 767 posts
Armorama: 672 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - 06:34 AM UTC
I modified the return skids, but I doubt you'll be able to tell after I apply the mud, other than the fact that they are not the late version.
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