Hello
Soviet ww2 tank tracks (or for that matter german ww2 tank tracks). What is the correct base colour? Cheers.....IAIN
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Tank Tracks - Correct Base Colour?
willow
Joined: March 28, 2008
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Posted: Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 01:49 AM UTC
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
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Posted: Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 03:41 AM UTC
This old thread might help.http://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/13266&page=1
Aleksey_Gilevskiy
Joined: July 02, 2007
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Posted: Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 10:03 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hello
Soviet ww2 tank tracks (or for that matter german ww2 tank tracks). What is the correct base colour? Cheers.....IAIN
steel-silver ONLY
NebLWeffah
Joined: October 13, 2004
KitMaker: 1,683 posts
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Posted: Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 10:43 AM UTC
Quoted Text
steel-silver ONLY
Hmmm.. that might be correct right from the foundry and then from 'off the shelf' as it were, but they oxidized and weathered quickly to a black-brown colour. The old thread Pat dug up will lead you in the right direction.
You have to take into account the time it took from manufacture to installation to rolling through towns, streets, muddy fields and then also adding in the effects of air, water and friction..... they didn't stay a shiny steel colour for very long.
If you're going to use Fruil tracks which are actual metal, then try a store bought solution called Blacken-It. It's made for the model railroad types and it's an acid which will colour the metal tracks just right to give them that black-brown patina.
Bob
willow
Joined: March 28, 2008
KitMaker: 129 posts
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Posted: Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 01:01 PM UTC
Thanks for sharing the link; I had not seen this thread earlier.
Were the tracks ever painted green/tan as per the base colour of the vehicle in question?
When I was at a tank museum some time back, I can vaguely recall seeing tanks that had coloured tracks the same colour as their base colour - perhaps just a museum thing. Thanks....IAIN
Were the tracks ever painted green/tan as per the base colour of the vehicle in question?
When I was at a tank museum some time back, I can vaguely recall seeing tanks that had coloured tracks the same colour as their base colour - perhaps just a museum thing. Thanks....IAIN
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
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Posted: Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 01:11 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks for sharing the link; I had not seen this thread earlier.
Were the tracks ever painted green/tan as per the base colour of the vehicle in question?
When I was at a tank museum some time back, I can vaguely recall seeing tanks that had coloured tracks the same colour as their base colour - perhaps just a museum thing. Thanks....IAIN
Museums are in the business of stabilizing their exhibits for future generations, so generally everything is painted, including the tracks (underfunded US military museums that park their exhibits outdoors are the exception here). Postwar Russian tank tracks are delivered in a thick, bituminous black paint to preserve it, though this is worn off over time as the tracks are used. German tank tracks were manganese steel and were a dull silver color with a slight brownish hue. Parts that contacted the ground would be kept free of rust by constant wear, and recessed areas would oxidize a bit, though that would tend to be covered by dirt and mud in any case. Tracks operated in desert conditions would generally be completely free of rust due to the constant exposure to sand (indeed, long term use in the desert would also scrub the belly plate free of paint, something the Israelis have had to contend with). Look at photos of operational vehicles, and you'll find that the tracks and running gear are often completely covered by dirt or mud.
willow
Joined: March 28, 2008
KitMaker: 129 posts
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Posted: Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 01:15 PM UTC
Thanks Gerald - some good info & it steered me completly away from replicating what I've seen in museums (painted green tracks). Sand abrasion and continued use certainly does remove all traces of anything other than the base product and colour - Iain
jphillips
Joined: February 25, 2007
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Posted: Thursday, July 03, 2008 - 05:13 PM UTC
God, I hate when museums repaint their tanks. I saw some pics once of an ex-NVA T-72 that had been totally repainted by the exhibitor, erasing its authentic markings. The colorful East German black-red-and yellow emblem and serial numbers had been completely painted over, and replaced by spurious markings, including a red star. What stupidity. I wish they would just retouch the original camo and markings on these vehicles, instead of covering them over with some make-believe crap.
Emeritus
Joined: March 30, 2004
KitMaker: 2,845 posts
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Posted: Friday, July 04, 2008 - 04:43 AM UTC
Quoted Text
God, I hate when museums repaint their tanks. I saw some pics once of an ex-NVA T-72 that had been totally repainted by the exhibitor, erasing its authentic markings. The colorful East German black-red-and yellow emblem and serial numbers had been completely painted over, and replaced by spurious markings, including a red star. What stupidity. I wish they would just retouch the original camo and markings on these vehicles, instead of covering them over with some make-believe crap.
Even though this is going OT, I couldn't agree more. I remember reading a book about Finnish Stug III Gs. According to it, several were bought by foreign armor museums after they were removed from service. One example featured in the book was repainted as a German vehicle, without caring that the only country that Stug served with was Finland (they were sold factory-fresh). Well, at least that's understandable, good-condition Stugs don't grow on trees. The disturbing fact was that the camo scheme the vehicle was painted in was mostly fiction and the vehicle still sported some of the finnish-made modifications...
Talk about ruining a completely fine piece of armor.
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
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Posted: Friday, July 04, 2008 - 04:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextGod, I hate when museums repaint their tanks. I saw some pics once of an ex-NVA T-72 that had been totally repainted by the exhibitor, erasing its authentic markings. The colorful East German black-red-and yellow emblem and serial numbers had been completely painted over, and replaced by spurious markings, including a red star. What stupidity. I wish they would just retouch the original camo and markings on these vehicles, instead of covering them over with some make-believe crap.
Even though this is going OT, I couldn't agree more. I remember reading a book about Finnish Stug III Gs. According to it, several were bought by foreign armor museums after they were removed from service. One example featured in the book was repainted as a German vehicle, without caring that the only country that Stug served with was Finland (they were sold factory-fresh). Well, at least that's understandable, good-condition Stugs don't grow on trees. The disturbing fact was that the camo scheme the vehicle was painted in was mostly fiction and the vehicle still sported some of the finnish-made modifications...
Talk about ruining a completely fine piece of armor.
As I said in my earlier post, it is sometimes a choice between exhibit conservation and authenticity. If the original paint is deteriorating and the underlying metal is subject to corrosion, then in the long run, the exhibit will be destroyed. There is also the environmental issue. In the bad old days, lead was not merely an occasional ingredient in paint, it was contractually required for durability. Over years, the lead will leach into the surrounding soil if the vehicle is stored outside in the rain (an issue slowly being dealt with at Aberdeen, as the vehicles are being stripped and repainted to conform to EPA regulations). Vehicles stored indoors can also flake, and the general public is a bit paranoid about lead paint flakes (really only a risk to tiny children, since most adults don't eat paint, but people are paranoid today about protecting small children, too). So the original paint has to go. It is aggravating when the museum makes no attempt to document the original scheme and duplicate it, though. At least the Bovington Tiger has been repainted in the same DAK colors as it had when captured (the paint was documented as it was stripped).
Emeritus
Joined: March 30, 2004
KitMaker: 2,845 posts
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Posted: Friday, July 04, 2008 - 10:17 PM UTC
Quoted Text
It is aggravating when the museum makes no attempt to document the original scheme and duplicate it, though. At least the Bovington Tiger has been repainted in the same DAK colors as it had when captured (the paint was documented as it was stripped).
Yes, that was my point exactly. Of course, original painjobs can't always be preserved and if the condition of the vehicle so requires, it's best to get the item renovated in order to keep corrision etc. from spreading.
Btw, I found one of those Stugs I mentioned, here: Ps.531-44, now in Bovington
That camo scheme is a new one, at least to me... Also, I have my doubts about those Finnish modifications being impossible to remove. I can spot at least the driver's visor, spare track link racks in the side of the hull and the modified machine gun shield.
Emeritus
Joined: March 30, 2004
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Posted: Friday, August 01, 2008 - 05:26 AM UTC
Sorry for bringing this thread back up with an out of topic post, but I couldn't resist.
Well, well, what do we have here: http://www.tankmuseum.org/collatest.html
Good to see Ps.531-44 restored to it's original appearance.
Well, well, what do we have here: http://www.tankmuseum.org/collatest.html
Good to see Ps.531-44 restored to it's original appearance.
cooper
Joined: December 28, 2007
KitMaker: 34 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 08, 2008 - 04:31 AM UTC
I would have to agree with Aleksey on this one if we are discussing a tank during operation. At the factory the German tracks were primer red. Any primer coat would be quickly worn off due to dirt,sand, mud, snow being driven through. This would be true of any rust that built up during days of inactivity. The tracks of the M-113s that I commanded when I was in the !st Engineer Bn would turn bright orange after about 2-3 days in the motor pool and within the week be a dark red brown.
However, half a kilometer past the wash rack the tracks would a dull polished steel with whatever we were driving through attached in places (mud,dirt,grass, snow).
However, half a kilometer past the wash rack the tracks would a dull polished steel with whatever we were driving through attached in places (mud,dirt,grass, snow).
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