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Difference between DNL T-26E3 and M46 kits
HeavyArty
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Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 03:24 AM UTC
I have the DML T-26E3 kit and was thinking about building it as a Korean war M46. Other than the tracks, what else is different.
PantherF
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Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 04:01 AM UTC
Isn't the T-26E3 a Pershing? If so, the M46 is a completely different tank.
sarge18
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Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 04:06 AM UTC
Not completely different. Just more grown up and part of the US's progress as they continued to grow through the M26/M46/M47 series.
Big differences - bore evacuators as per M26A1, engine deck changed with external mufflers - see the Dragon M46, or any of the M47 kits out there. That's a start. I've seen a few M47 hulls married up with the M26A1 turret and called an M46. *shrug* Digging back through things when I had more time, the from reading, gathered that the M46 and M47 hulls were different in the front glacis. Similar looking, but different vent, etc.
Jed
Big differences - bore evacuators as per M26A1, engine deck changed with external mufflers - see the Dragon M46, or any of the M47 kits out there. That's a start. I've seen a few M47 hulls married up with the M26A1 turret and called an M46. *shrug* Digging back through things when I had more time, the from reading, gathered that the M46 and M47 hulls were different in the front glacis. Similar looking, but different vent, etc.
Jed
PantherF
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Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 04:21 AM UTC
Yeah, the M47 and M46 hulls, completely different envolving return wheels, blower housing, hull machine gun, also M47 has a 60 degree slope and the M46 has a 46 degree slope on the front armor.
The M46 is basically a rebuilt M26 Pershing with a different engine, engine & transmission deck grills & exhaust, sprocket placement with earlier versions with a track tension idler wheel, single baffle muzzle brake & bore evacuator, blower housing with the front squared off. Also, other cosmetic changes to the mantlet and turret with the tool storage on the front glacis.
Also, starting with the M26A1 Pershing and continuing with the M46 Patton the periscopes on either side of the blower housing were removed and their holes filled in.
The M46 is basically a rebuilt M26 Pershing with a different engine, engine & transmission deck grills & exhaust, sprocket placement with earlier versions with a track tension idler wheel, single baffle muzzle brake & bore evacuator, blower housing with the front squared off. Also, other cosmetic changes to the mantlet and turret with the tool storage on the front glacis.
Also, starting with the M26A1 Pershing and continuing with the M46 Patton the periscopes on either side of the blower housing were removed and their holes filled in.
Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 04:50 AM UTC
Okay I add a question to this. What is the differnace between a T-26E3 and M-26 Pershing. Which is correct for WWII?
PantherF
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Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 05:34 AM UTC
The T-26E3 was standardized to become the M26 Pershing. There were various prototypes built under the designations T-20, T-22, T-23, T-25 and T-26. The M26 went through some updates with new engine packs (E2 and E3) but the M26 was used in WWII.
The final one was the T-26E3. The M26 was used in late WWII as a heavy tank only later after the war to be re-classified as a medium and during the Korean War.
The final one was the T-26E3. The M26 was used in late WWII as a heavy tank only later after the war to be re-classified as a medium and during the Korean War.
jjumbo
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Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 06:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Okay I add a question to this. What is the differnace between a T-26E3 and M-26 Pershing. Which is correct for WWII?
Hey Scott,
Just as Jeff said, the T26E3 was standardized after the war as the M26 Pershing medium tank, the original wartime designation being T26E3 heavy tank.
Twenty (20) T26E3's were sent to the ETO with the intent to test them in action against German AFV's.
The special mission, code named Zebra, arrived in Belgium in early February 1945 and the tanks were assigned to the 3rd & 9th Armored Divisions.
The 3rd's tanks first went into combat on February 25th and the 9th's were used during the crossing of the Roer River on February 28th and eventually at the battle for the Bridge at Remagen.
If you're interested, try and pick up a copy of Hunnicutt's book on the Pershing, printed by Feist Publications.
Cheers
jjumbo
HeavyArty
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Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 07:06 AM UTC
OK, so they are quite different, yet still accurate for a Korean war tank. Looks like I may need to get some T80 track for this one then.
jjumbo
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Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 07:53 AM UTC
Quoted Text
OK, so they are quite different, yet still accurate for a Korean war tank. Looks like I may need to get some T80 track for this one then.
Hey Gino,
The Hunnicutt book has photos of Pershings early on in Korea (August 1950) using the WW II era type T66 track, same as DML's T26E3.
While not as common as the T80 or T84, it's obvious that first USMC Pershings that arrived from Japan had the older track type.
Cheers
jjumbo
stahl33
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Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 09:05 AM UTC
Gino
I am an KW(korean war) fan! Not only as modelling but also as historian and militaria collector.
You can build the DML kit OTB with no problems.Maybe look for some archer USMC stencils.
Here a great link to much greater pictures!!!!
http://www.koreanwar-educator.org/memoirs/servais_dean/index.htm
And keep us posted with process.I will be working on the USMC flame sherman!
Enjoy
Karl
I am an KW(korean war) fan! Not only as modelling but also as historian and militaria collector.
You can build the DML kit OTB with no problems.Maybe look for some archer USMC stencils.
Here a great link to much greater pictures!!!!
http://www.koreanwar-educator.org/memoirs/servais_dean/index.htm
And keep us posted with process.I will be working on the USMC flame sherman!
Enjoy
Karl
PantherF
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Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 09:22 AM UTC
So yes, the T26E3 can be built as a Korean War tank with no problems. It could have the phone and turn buckle fender supports added, cut the front fenders or add the M3A1 gun with the single baffle and bore evacuator too. By the Korean War, the side fender skirts were omitted/taken off or bent upwards to aid in more storage.
But turning an M26 into a M46 would be easier to just buy another kit.
But turning an M26 into a M46 would be easier to just buy another kit.
210cav
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Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 09:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextOkay I add a question to this. What is the differnace between a T-26E3 and M-26 Pershing. Which is correct for WWII?
Hey Scott,
Just as Jeff said, the T26E3 was standardized after the war as the M26 Pershing medium tank, the original wartime designation being T26E3 heavy tank.
Twenty (20) T26E3's were sent to the ETO with the intent to test them in action against German AFV's.
The special mission, code named Zebra, arrived in Belgium in early February 1945 and the tanks were assigned to the 3rd & 9th Armored Divisions.
The 3rd's tanks first went into combat on February 25th and the 9th's were used during the crossing of the Roer River on February 28th and eventually at the battle for the Bridge at Remagen.
If you're interested, try and pick up a copy of Hunnicutt's book on the Pershing, printed by Feist Publications.
Cheers
jjumbo
JJumbo-- If I am not mistaken, the first batch of M-26s to arrive in the ETO were horrible. Big time engine problems (which were never entirely solved) and touble with either the track or the suspension system. I am guessing here. I also seem to recall that they were withdrawn from Korea and replaced by the M4A3E8 Shermans due to their poor performance....am I close to being correct?
danke
DJ
mikeo
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Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 12:08 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Was anything withdrawn from Korea? I was under the impression that if it had armor and a gun it was sent in there. Weren't things awfully tight there?Quoted TextQuoted TextOkay I add a question to this. What is the differnace between a T-26E3 and M-26 Pershing. Which is correct for WWII?
Hey Scott,
Just as Jeff said, the T26E3 was standardized after the war as the M26 Pershing medium tank, the original wartime designation being T26E3 heavy tank.
Twenty (20) T26E3's were sent to the ETO with the intent to test them in action against German AFV's.
The special mission, code named Zebra, arrived in Belgium in early February 1945 and the tanks were assigned to the 3rd & 9th Armored Divisions.
The 3rd's tanks first went into combat on February 25th and the 9th's were used during the crossing of the Roer River on February 28th and eventually at the battle for the Bridge at Remagen.
If you're interested, try and pick up a copy of Hunnicutt's book on the Pershing, printed by Feist Publications.
Cheers
jjumbo
JJumbo-- If I am not mistaken, the first batch of M-26s to arrive in the ETO were horrible. Big time engine problems (which were never entirely solved) and touble with either the track or the suspension system. I am guessing here. I also seem to recall that they were withdrawn from Korea and replaced by the M4A3E8 Shermans due to their poor performance....am I close to being correct?
danke
DJ
jjumbo
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Posted: Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 12:58 PM UTC
Quoted Text
JJumbo-- If I am not mistaken, the first batch of M-26s to arrive in the ETO were horrible. Big time engine problems (which were never entirely solved) and touble with either the track or the suspension system. I am guessing here. I also seem to recall that they were withdrawn from Korea and replaced by the M4A3E8 Shermans due to their poor performance....am I close to being correct?
danke
DJ
Hey DJ,
The first batch of M26's that arrived in Korea were suffering from a lack of spare parts, particularly fan belts for the engine.
They had been sitting in vehicle depots all over Japan and their maintenance had been neglected as the M24 Chaffee was preferred by the occupation forces.
The M26 engine was the same one used in the M4A3 Sherman, the 500 hp Ford GAA I believe, and the extra weight of the Pershing made it slower and difficult to maneuver.
The 90mm gun was a welcome improvement over the 75mm gun that the M24 Chaffee had and was capable of knocking out the North Korean T-34/85 "Caviar Cans" with ease.
The M4A3E8 Shermans became the preferred tank of the American and UN troops (except the Brits and their superb Centurions) as the it was better suited for use in the hilly terrain of Korea and improved ammunition was made available for it's 76mm cannon.
Cheers
jjumbo
210cav
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Posted: Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 07:12 AM UTC
JJumbo---thanks for the information. That is news to me about the engine. Very interesting point.
thanks again
DJ
PS as to the observation that equipment was not withdrawn from Korea....well, kinda. The M-24 did not prove itself so was relegated to rear area security missions. Nice tank but the main gun just did not pack the punch. We kept them until the arrival of the M-41
thanks again
DJ
PS as to the observation that equipment was not withdrawn from Korea....well, kinda. The M-24 did not prove itself so was relegated to rear area security missions. Nice tank but the main gun just did not pack the punch. We kept them until the arrival of the M-41
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Monday, July 28, 2008 - 05:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hey Scott,
Just as Jeff said, the T26E3 was standardized after the war as the M26 Pershing medium tank, the original wartime designation being T26E3 heavy tank.
Twenty (20) T26E3's were sent to the ETO with the intent to test them in action against German AFV's.
The special mission, code named Zebra, arrived in Belgium in early February 1945 and the tanks were assigned to the 3rd & 9th Armored Divisions.
The 3rd's tanks first went into combat on February 25th and the 9th's were used during the crossing of the Roer River on February 28th and eventually at the battle for the Bridge at Remagen.
If you're interested, try and pick up a copy of Hunnicutt's book on the Pershing, printed by Feist Publications.
Cheers
jjumbo
That's not the full story. Because the Hunnicutt book concentrates on the first batch, the erroneous impression is left that only twenty Pershings ever went to Europe, which is ridiculous. In fact, deliveries of the tanks continued through the end of the war, with 300 Pershings in theater and about 250 in the hands of frontline troops by VE Day. The Schiffer softcover photo book on the Pershing has a nice selection of photos, and Steve Zaloga's Osprey Vanguard book has information on units operating them.
The first batch were still designated T26E3 when they were sent, but the tank was reclassified as the M26 during the spring of 1945. There were improvements during the 1945 production run. The 500 cfm ventilation blower mounted between the drivers' hatches was inadequate, so a 1000 cfm blower was substituted, and the bulge in the central glacis was enlarged to accommodate it. There was also a minor repositioning of the hinge mounts for the gun travel lock.
The tank was underpowered, as the Ford engine had been designed for the 33 ton M4A3 Sherman, not the 46 ton M26 Pershing, though nobody really complained during the war, as its armor and firepower were most welcome. However, in 1948, the new Continental AVL-1790 engine and CD-850 cross drive transmission became available, and a major rebuild program was authorized, though it was incomplete when the Korean War broke out. Tanks fitted with the new powerpack and an improved gun were redesignated the M46 Patton, while tanks that got the gun only were M26A1 Pershings. In Korea, the M46 was very popular, as it had power to spare, but the unmodified Pershings were thoroughly disliked due to their poor hill climbing ability.
The Dragon T26E3 kit depicts the earlier glacis configuration, but the Dragon M46 Patton has the larger glacis bulge as well as the revised engine deck (I believe the M26A1 kit also had the larger bulge, but I'd have to dig out the review to be sure). To convert the Pershing kit, you'd need an Italeri M47 kit as a donor for the engine deck and rear parts, and you have to recontour the glacis. Better bet is to try and snag a Dragon M46 kit--it was reissued not too long ago (but don't even think about building the reissued Lindberg M46).
PantherF
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Posted: Monday, July 28, 2008 - 11:49 PM UTC
Yeah, the Lindberg M46 (I have it) is nothing more than a toy turned into a model. Very crude but still buildable but for accuracy I'd go with the DRAGON M46.