hi guys, looking for yet more advice,
What works best when doing a wash? Acryllics or inks? and why?
Just incase it matters i'll be washing a wall ive made on my diorama. Its originally made of foam board and cardboard, then lightly plastered, coated with dilute pva, primed and will be lightly sprayed before i wash it.
look forward to hearing from you
Martin

IMO, washes with artist oils in turpenoid thinner is the way to go.

Why? As I understand it the pigments are smallest in artist oils. I think you get better flow/capillary action with turpenoid than water.

I have done very little wash with acrylics. When I did I got water marks even using distilled water. And, it tended to "puddle" rather than flow. It was a b-a-a-a-ad experience, brrr...

On man's opinion anyway...

Ditto to Jpeiper. I, too, have found most washes with acrylics to be an exercise in frustration. I've taken to using Payne's Gray oil for most washes, though Van Dyke Brown works well, too. With an oil wash, you should apply the paint mixture close to where you want the paint to avoid over tinting the the subject.

I asked for advise on washes two years ago on missing Links and screaming eagle (Ralph) answered. I paint mostly with enamels, so when given 72 hours curing time, there is no need for gloss coats. Washes are easy with enamels, oils or a mixture of both using Humbrols thinner. To this day I still use it as anything I have tried has never been better. Now I dont experiment with it anymore.... I get the result Im looking for and am comfartable with it.

On the topic of washing, how much thinner is really needed? I've never done a wash before and I also keep hearing of the wash eating away at the paint on the model (at least with enamels). Some tips?

I use Testors MM Enamel Raw Umber thinned with thinner. It's a pretty good catch all dark, grimy wash. f you do use acrylics, use alcohol as your wash. It works well for me, but only for a limited amount of time.

I have no real idea of the ratio but it's probably at least 9:1 thinner to paint. I dab some oil paint on my palette and add a few drops of thinner and mix. When the mixture is thin enought o allow capilary action, i.e., it runs along a sharp edge, while retaining color, it's ready. (I use take out food condiment caps as a palette which has some raised detail to test on.)

I usually add a wash only where I want to add depth; therefore, I'm transferring a relatively small amount to the model and placing it in a panel line/weld seam or dabbing it on a rivet or other protrusion that wil eventually be dry brushed. As such, even a large amount of thinner is going to have minimal effect on the paint since I'm not "brushing" over softened paint.

I just mix it up and see what happens, even less scientific than Al. I use old film contines to mix in so after the paint settles a bit if I need a darker wash I just stick the brush deeper into the wash....

Over the years I have tried many different methods of washing. I now stick with oils as my paint and turpenoid as the vehicle. I have also found it to be a great help to have a coat of future on the model before washing. I was never able to keep the wash from eating into the paint somewhere on the model until I started using future.

Thanks! I'll try some of this out later today on parts from my poor K1 tank.

Hooah! Mosquito wings!

I've been trying to learn how to get a wash down, but seems eveytime I try it, the paint (Widsor&Newton) just breaks down into particles, it's not smooth at all. I'm going ever a base coat of future. Is it possible that it is just thinned way to much? I'm using turpenoid as the thinner, also tried sansodor... I've tried more paint, but it either breaks down, or it won't flow. Seems to be no in between. I've asked this question before, but don't seem to get any response, I don't know if anyone knows the answer. I'm getting frustrated to the point of giving up on the hobby. It is disheartening to spend all the time building and painting a model, to have it ruined by something that should be so simple. Well, enough of my crying, time to just go get a beer....

Bribo,

Don't get discouraged and quit. The only way to get better is to keep trying something until you get it. Based on what you are describing, I think that you have two problems...

1) Your wash is too thin.
2) Your surface is too glossy. Try applying your wash to a semi-gloss or flat finish. You have to dullcoat most models anyway, and these finishes have much more "tooth" to them than a gloss one.

I do acrylic and water color washes and they work for me. They are a little "safer" because they don't attack paint except for other acrylics that are fresh.

When you use a water based wash, you need to "cut" the wash with some liquid soap so that surface tension is eliminated. Surface tension is what is causing the water marks you see. Don't use a lot of soap, or you will get bubbles, just enough to allow the wash to "flow." A good test is to pick a recessed panel line, then dab a brush with some wash in it. If the wash is cut right, then it will shoot down the panel line on its own via capillary action.

The really nice thing about using water colors (which is what I mainly use) is that if you hate the wash, it comes right off the model. Once you are done, you can seal it for protection.

You can also try a "sludge" wash which is a drier wash. Simply make a thicker solution of paint and really goop it on the panels or items being washed. Let dry completely and then clean off the excess. This technique may also help you.

Hope I have helped, and hang in there!!! Remember, hobbies are fun.

Scott

Scott,
I read some stuff over at the Aircraft Resource Center, and they seem to hnt at the same thing, the wash being too thin. I'm going to try again tomorrow.
Thanks for the encouragement, though, I appreciate it! It's just the frustration talking, I love the hobby too much to give it up! May try to alter my technique, though, give some other medium a try, possibly water colors, like you said, or maybe the water based inks. I feel an art store run coming on! Thanks again

I can understand your frustration. However, may I suggest you stick with the oils. They really do work exceptionally well. What I'd suggest is build a slamer model, just slap it together, no real clean up, absolutely no detailing, no interior. But give it a good single color paint job. Practice you washes on that. Take notes of how you're mixing the paint and thinner, the fininsh (gloss, flat, etc.) Don't be afraid to strip it down, since this is an experimemting kit. When you get teh results you want, keep track of that formula. Repaint the junker and follow your own formula to see if you can replicate it. When you get a couple good results in a row, you'll know it's safe to move on to a serious model. Don't slather the wash over everything. Apply it as I suggested earlier in this thread where you want shadows. Let capilary action pull the wash along.

Scott, have you ever used the "semi-gloss clear" that testors makes? Would that work as the "satin" coat that people speak of?

I have always used Enamels for my washes just make sure your base coat is dry,If your base coat is acrylic an enamel wash will not bother it at all