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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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AP Capability in Sherman 105
high510
Joined: January 10, 2007
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Posted: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 05:17 AM UTC
Was there a native Anti-tank capability for the 105 gun on the Sherman 105 (maybe HEAT or Sabot)? I know it is a howizter, but this strikes me as a useful self defence capability. Just wondering.
calvin_ng
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Posted: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 05:32 AM UTC
linkname that might help
calvin_ng
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Posted: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 05:33 AM UTC
whoops link wouldnt work http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Sherman
jjumbo
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Posted: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 04:35 PM UTC
Wikipedia claims that the 105mm's HEAT round was able to penetrate 102mm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M101_howitzer

Unfortunately, it doesn't say from what range it could do it.
Considering the weapon's low muzzle velocity, 381 metres per second, it probably wasn't overly effective on heavily armoured vehicles.
Cheers

jjumbo
jjumbo
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Posted: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 05:26 PM UTC
Here's some more info on the 105mm:

http://gva.freeweb.hu/weapons/usa.html

http://gva.freeweb.hu/weapons/usa_guns8.html

Cheers

jjumbo
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 05:57 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Wikipedia claims that the 105mm's HEAT round was able to penetrate 102mm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M101_howitzer

Unfortunately, it doesn't say from what range it could do it.
Considering the weapon's low muzzle velocity, 381 metres per second, it probably wasn't overly effective on heavily armoured vehicles.
Cheers

jjumbo


Muzzle velocity is irrelevant when using HEAT (i.e. hollow charge) ammunition. The penetration is made by the explosively formed jet of hot gas and metal particles (indeed, HEAT warheads don't have to be moving at all--German magnetic mines used hollow charges). That's why the table on the link usa_guns site gives the same penetration at all ranges out to 1828 meters (2000 yards).
jjumbo
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Posted: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 03:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Muzzle velocity is irrelevant when using HEAT (i.e. hollow charge) ammunition. The penetration is made by the explosively formed jet of hot gas and metal particles (indeed, HEAT warheads don't have to be moving at all--German magnetic mines used hollow charges). That's why the table on the link usa_guns site gives the same penetration at all ranges out to 1828 meters (2000 yards).


Thanks Gerald.
I forgot about that, DOOOOOOOOOH
IIRC, wasn't their a problem with HEAT rounds when they were first introduced?
Early HEAT rounds were affected by the spin of the shell which disipated the penetrative effects of the HEAT round.
Cheers

jjumbo
Fitz
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Posted: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 01:52 PM UTC
Sometime after the war, probably in the 1950's HESH replaced HEAT as the standard anti-armor round for 105mm howitzers. It was a much more effective round.
jowady
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Posted: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 03:16 PM UTC
American 105 crews also had success against German tanks firing WP (white phosphorous). A loud bang followed by the tank filling with smoke could sometimes cause a crew to abandon their tank, even if there was little or no other damage. I don't know if the M4 105 carried WP but I would be surprised if they didn't have the occassional round at least.

John
ALBOWIE
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Posted: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 08:27 PM UTC
Also check out this thread at ML which covered the same subject:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/thread/1212168421/Utilization+of+the+105mm+Sherman
Al
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