AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
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Thinning Vallejo Paint
hkopper
Joined: March 01, 2008
KitMaker: 529 posts
Armorama: 143 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 02:45 PM UTC
I'm still having great difficulties air brushing with vallejo paint .. it keeps clogging my air brush ( i have a iwata HP-C plus). What is the best thinning agent to use with vallejo's acrylic line ( I mainly use destilled water till the paint is very runny). Should I use thinner or mineral spirits instead?
Phil_H
Joined: November 10, 2005
KitMaker: 546 posts
Armorama: 442 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 03:01 PM UTC
Either Vallejo's own proprietary thinner or distilled water should work.
Say no to enamel thinner, mineral spirits and alcohol (this includes Tamiya acrylic thinner)- they are not compatible and will leave you with a sticky ball of goo.
There are a few posts here which say that Windex also works. Personally, I wouldn't use it, but if it works...
Say no to enamel thinner, mineral spirits and alcohol (this includes Tamiya acrylic thinner)- they are not compatible and will leave you with a sticky ball of goo.
There are a few posts here which say that Windex also works. Personally, I wouldn't use it, but if it works...
D_J_W
Joined: December 30, 2005
KitMaker: 436 posts
Armorama: 367 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 04:19 PM UTC
Hi Hermann,
this is quite a regular problem for first time Vallejo users. I use tap water with a bit of windowscreen cleaner (windex seems to be recommended item in your part of the globe).
For brush painting I thin it down to about the consistency of liquid cream and for spraying the consistency of milk. I also mix in a little bit of Tamiya Flat Base with the thinned mixture.
Hope this is of some help.
cheers
David
this is quite a regular problem for first time Vallejo users. I use tap water with a bit of windowscreen cleaner (windex seems to be recommended item in your part of the globe).
For brush painting I thin it down to about the consistency of liquid cream and for spraying the consistency of milk. I also mix in a little bit of Tamiya Flat Base with the thinned mixture.
Hope this is of some help.
cheers
David
hkopper
Joined: March 01, 2008
KitMaker: 529 posts
Armorama: 143 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 05:03 PM UTC
Haven't tried using windex ...will give it a try ..thanks to all for your advise 
hkopper
Joined: March 01, 2008
KitMaker: 529 posts
Armorama: 143 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 05:05 PM UTC
just curious, what ratio of paint : tap water : windshield cleaner do you use?
D_J_W
Joined: December 30, 2005
KitMaker: 436 posts
Armorama: 367 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 06:34 PM UTC
Hi Hermann,
Good question I'm not one for working to exact ratios, my guess would be somewhere between 10 parts waters to 1 part cleaner and 20 to 1.
cheers
David
Quoted Text
just curious, what ratio of paint : tap water : windshield cleaner do you use?
Good question
I'm not one for working to exact ratios, my guess would be somewhere between 10 parts waters to 1 part cleaner and 20 to 1. cheers
David
JamesDean
Joined: August 17, 2005
KitMaker: 77 posts
Armorama: 67 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 01:30 AM UTC
Actually, although many people do, you really should not spray Vallejo ModelColor. That line uses fine arts pigments for the highest possible color quality and to achieve that many shades use cadmium. Newer bottles are actually getting a "do no spray" added to the label of certain colors.
Vallejo's ModelAir is specifically for airbrushing. It uses the finest grid of pigments, none of which are on the do no spray list. It is ready strait from the bottle, though many (myself included) find it beneficial to add some of their thinner, which is not really a thinner in the classic sense but rather a very thin formulation of their acrylic resin. It gives the paint the strongest finish possible and marginally extends dry time.
If you do spray ModelColor, any number of fluids are used, but there is no question that their thinner is best, again because it more than just thins the paint, it does so while maintaining the paints renowned properties.
Vallejo's ModelAir is specifically for airbrushing. It uses the finest grid of pigments, none of which are on the do no spray list. It is ready strait from the bottle, though many (myself included) find it beneficial to add some of their thinner, which is not really a thinner in the classic sense but rather a very thin formulation of their acrylic resin. It gives the paint the strongest finish possible and marginally extends dry time.
If you do spray ModelColor, any number of fluids are used, but there is no question that their thinner is best, again because it more than just thins the paint, it does so while maintaining the paints renowned properties.
viper29_ca
Joined: October 18, 2002
KitMaker: 2,247 posts
Armorama: 1,138 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 02:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Actually, although many people do, you really should not spray Vallejo ModelColor. That line uses fine arts pigments for the highest possible color quality and to achieve that many shades use cadmium etc. Newer bottles are actually getting a "do no spray" added to the label.
As a retailer and user of these paints, I have never seen a "do not spray" on any bottle of Vallejo paint. Maybe the metallic colors like their gold and silver, as I find they have larger metallic flakes in them, but definitely not their regular line of paint.
I have been using Vallejo for years, and yes there is a learning curve to thinning them for airbrushing, but by no means is it impossible. Like thinning any other paint for airbrushing you are looking for a consistency like skim milk. Now telling you to use X amount of thinner to X amount of paint, for the most part will work for most of Vallejo's colors (I usually used about 70-80% thinner to 20-30% paint), you sometimes have to play with the ratio a bit to get that consistency.
The best thing to use to thin it. Vallejo's own thinner. The one thing I wish they would do is bring their thinner out in a larger bottle though, the 17ml bottle, the same size as all their paint. Would be nice to have a larger bottle of thinner.
For brush painting, I just use a pallet, dispense out a drop or 2 of the paint I need, and add a drop or so of regular blue windshield washer fluid. Stir it around, and away you go.
I have talked to the guys from Vallejo to try and get their input on thinning their paint for airbrushing. And they said that it isn't a problem to do so, just that because their paint is such a high quantity of pigments, that it will take more thinner than normal to get it to reduce down to a liquid able to shoot through an airbrush.
Also, if you go to your LHS, if by chance that they are out of the thinner for their Model line of paint, the thinner in the Game line of Vallejo paint is exactly the same thing, and can be used with all of their paints.
hkopper
Joined: March 01, 2008
KitMaker: 529 posts
Armorama: 143 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 02:45 AM UTC
I believe that I've finally killed my Iwata HP-c plus !! I do not see any visible obstructions in the AB or the nozzle yet nothing (not even water) is being sprayed out. All I get is air and bubbles from the fluid receptacle. Will need to contact Iwata to see where to go from here. (maybe even buy a cheap AB .. this one is turning into a money pit) 
Emeritus
Joined: March 30, 2004
KitMaker: 2,845 posts
Armorama: 808 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 03:19 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The best thing to use to thin it. Vallejo's own thinner. The one thing I wish they would do is bring their thinner out in a larger bottle though, the 17ml bottle, the same size as all their paint. Would be nice to have a larger bottle of thinner.
I think they have already; I have a 32ml bottle myself, and I've seen it being sold in larger 100 and 300ml (IIRC) bottles as well.
alanmac
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,953 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 03:42 AM UTC
Hi James
With due respect and not wishing to cause offence or imply anything I'd be interested to know where you are getting this information from.
In my opinion its more likely they are putting the "do not spray" on as a precautionary measure and to also ensure that those wishing to spray the paint will be directed towards their pre thinned Model Air range.
In that way they are trying to ensure their paint is not given a bad name by people complaining " I brought Model Color and it clogs my airbrush, or I can't use it in my airbrush etc. scenario" when in fact it's perfectly capable of being airbrushed given the correct amount of diluting. They can then if need be simply say well you should use Model Air to spray.
Also if you followed this to the letter you'd be giving Vallejo additional income by buying both types of the same colours you require.
To my mind it makes little economical sense from a manufacturing point of view to have two different levels of pigmentation created when all we are talking about is thinning to a level for use straight out the bottle for airbrushing. In that way they can just order one batch and divert it to whatever process they require just thinning and adding any other chemicals they require to suit the range they are manufacturing for at the time, Model Air or Model Color.
I suspect even the Game Color comes from the same basic ingredients with only some form of chemical added to cope with the extra handling Game Color figures are intended to have.
Also where would that then leave their Panzer Aces range ? Is that to going to be produced in both types of application bottles, spray and brush versions.
Alan
With due respect and not wishing to cause offence or imply anything I'd be interested to know where you are getting this information from.
In my opinion its more likely they are putting the "do not spray" on as a precautionary measure and to also ensure that those wishing to spray the paint will be directed towards their pre thinned Model Air range.
In that way they are trying to ensure their paint is not given a bad name by people complaining " I brought Model Color and it clogs my airbrush, or I can't use it in my airbrush etc. scenario" when in fact it's perfectly capable of being airbrushed given the correct amount of diluting. They can then if need be simply say well you should use Model Air to spray.
Also if you followed this to the letter you'd be giving Vallejo additional income by buying both types of the same colours you require.
To my mind it makes little economical sense from a manufacturing point of view to have two different levels of pigmentation created when all we are talking about is thinning to a level for use straight out the bottle for airbrushing. In that way they can just order one batch and divert it to whatever process they require just thinning and adding any other chemicals they require to suit the range they are manufacturing for at the time, Model Air or Model Color.
I suspect even the Game Color comes from the same basic ingredients with only some form of chemical added to cope with the extra handling Game Color figures are intended to have.
Also where would that then leave their Panzer Aces range ? Is that to going to be produced in both types of application bottles, spray and brush versions.
Alan
alanmac
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,953 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 03:53 AM UTC
As already mentioned the thinner is available in bigger sizes although I've not seen it at any of my local stores carrying the range. I think most find it hard to find space for the Model Color and Model Air range display units let alone other items. Indeed one has said he'd like to stock the individual Panzer Aces but simply doesn't have room for the additional displayer so just stocks some of the sets on a shelf with other items.
Large Quantity
Alan
Large Quantity
Alan
JamesDean
Joined: August 17, 2005
KitMaker: 77 posts
Armorama: 67 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 11:58 AM UTC
Quoted Text
With due respect and not wishing to cause offence or imply anything I'd be interested to know where you are getting this information from.
From Vallejo's own website . Once in the "Miniature & Model Colors" section, click on "Safety".
Quoted Text
.As a retailer and user of these paints, I have never seen a "do not spray" on any bottle of Vallejo paint.
See above mentioned section on their site: "...as well as a new label design which will make it feasible to list the most important pigments contained in the colors.". I've seen a couple so far (they look exactly like the old ModelColor labels except with a little extra fine print which read: "Contains Cadmium - do not spray"). Probably just haven't worked their way into the channel yet.
In truth I think the do-not-spray thing is required (when cadmium is present) to meet ASTM labeling standards which Vallejo is working towards. On balance, these can't be the first model paints in the world to contain these pigments, but Vallejo is possibly the first manufacturer to be so committed to, and forthright about, our safety. This new lableling may seem "dramatic" to some people, but ultimately its about being informed. If you want to spray ModelColor (and I admit I on occasion do), at least you'll know what you are dealing with (which is more than I can say for some other manufactures) and can take what you see as approprioate cautions.
alanmac
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,953 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 24, 2008 - 12:23 PM UTC
Hi
Thanks for replying. If I'm reading all of this correctly and as you stated in your first post, it's because of the content of Model Color that requires this labelling and is an issue of health and safety rather than one of capability.
So whilst they will put this on the label it doesn't mean it cannot be used in that way, thinned correctly but just like using solvent based paints you need to wear a protective mask to prevent the inhalation of atomised paint particles containing these substances, primarily Cadmium and Cobalt. Which again are not dangerous to us upon skin contact, only if ingested internally.
Interesting, thanks for the information. I'm assuming it can't be a big issue and not of high risk otherwise theyed have withdrawn them from the market.
I'd have said eventually they'll formulate them all as the Model Air range and we can breath a sigh of relief as it were
Alan
Thanks for replying. If I'm reading all of this correctly and as you stated in your first post, it's because of the content of Model Color that requires this labelling and is an issue of health and safety rather than one of capability.
So whilst they will put this on the label it doesn't mean it cannot be used in that way, thinned correctly but just like using solvent based paints you need to wear a protective mask to prevent the inhalation of atomised paint particles containing these substances, primarily Cadmium and Cobalt. Which again are not dangerous to us upon skin contact, only if ingested internally.
Interesting, thanks for the information. I'm assuming it can't be a big issue and not of high risk otherwise theyed have withdrawn them from the market.
I'd have said eventually they'll formulate them all as the Model Air range and we can breath a sigh of relief as it were
Alan
davsam28
Joined: July 19, 2006
KitMaker: 95 posts
Armorama: 92 posts
Posted: Monday, August 25, 2008 - 01:45 AM UTC
no worrys hermann, im sure you just have a clogged nozzle that is where the bubbles come from! i have been there several times myself your best bet is unscrew the nozzle and soak
overnight in asuitable solution,solvent to counteract your paint! plz be careful putting the nozzle back on when you tighten with wrench turn it to the base but do not torque it turn it on and thats it you shouldnt feel anyresistance ......yes ive broken a nozzle too just wanted to throw caution at you good luck to you
overnight in asuitable solution,solvent to counteract your paint! plz be careful putting the nozzle back on when you tighten with wrench turn it to the base but do not torque it turn it on and thats it you shouldnt feel anyresistance ......yes ive broken a nozzle too just wanted to throw caution at you good luck to you
viper29_ca
Joined: October 18, 2002
KitMaker: 2,247 posts
Armorama: 1,138 posts
Posted: Monday, August 25, 2008 - 03:30 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Indeed one has said he'd like to stock the individual Panzer Aces but simply doesn't have room for the additional displayer so just stocks some of the sets on a shelf with other items.
I have the Panzer Aces line in my shop, and they are formulated the same as the Model Color line.
I don't know about not having room for it, as the Panzer Aces rack is designed to attach to the top of the regular Model Color Rack. Least mine did.
Belt_Fed
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,325 posts
Posted: Monday, November 24, 2008 - 09:53 AM UTC
always strip down and clean your airbrush after each use. I recomend todding away Iwata's little wrench for putting the nozzle back on, i just screw it in with my fingernails.
wrhouston
Joined: January 04, 2007
KitMaker: 20 posts
Armorama: 16 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 09:04 AM UTC
Hi Alan,
You can buy a 200 ml bottle of Vallejo thinner from Antics.co.uk at about £7.00. In addition, I have bought a bottle of their artist's acrylic thinner from an art store - forget which one - at £6.99 for 500 ml. I think it is the same stuff, for it looks and smells like the thinner Vallejo produce for Modelcolor. I have tried it and it works fine.
You can buy a 200 ml bottle of Vallejo thinner from Antics.co.uk at about £7.00. In addition, I have bought a bottle of their artist's acrylic thinner from an art store - forget which one - at £6.99 for 500 ml. I think it is the same stuff, for it looks and smells like the thinner Vallejo produce for Modelcolor. I have tried it and it works fine.
Henk
Joined: August 07, 2004
KitMaker: 6,391 posts
Armorama: 4,258 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 27, 2008 - 12:14 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I believe that I've finally killed my Iwata HP-c plus !! I do not see any visible obstructions in the AB or the nozzle yet nothing (not even water) is being sprayed out. All I get is air and bubbles from the fluid receptacle. Will need to contact Iwata to see where to go from here. (maybe even buy a cheap AB .. this one is turning into a money pit)
If you have bubble blowing back into the paint cup, and no paint (or water) spraying out, your nozzle is not sealing properly. It may not be tightened enough, or the washer (if it has one ) may be worn.
panzerkampfw
Joined: June 11, 2006
KitMaker: 171 posts
Armorama: 164 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 10:22 AM UTC
i use windex with no problems at all
modelmaker24
Joined: August 02, 2010
KitMaker: 2 posts
Armorama: 1 posts
Posted: Monday, August 02, 2010 - 06:12 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I believe that I've finally killed my Iwata HP-c plus !! I do not see any visible obstructions in the AB or the nozzle yet nothing (not even water) is being sprayed out. All I get is air and bubbles from the fluid receptacle. Will need to contact Iwata to see where to go from here. (maybe even buy a cheap AB .. this one is turning into a money pit)
your Iwata is probably wounded, not dead. what has probably happened is the needle closing into the paint nozzle (the tiny but oh-so expensive bit at the front) has forced the (fairly) heavy paint into it and invisibly but irrecoverably damaged it due to hydraulic action. the same can happen if you inadvertently let the trigger snap shut. if you turn air pressure RIGHT up paint will then (usually) flow, but this merely proves the problem. take courage, buy a new nozzle and be SO-O-O careful not to let anything too thick go through. I did this twice, once with a cheap brush, once with an Olympos (ouch) but this cured both. hope this helps and tell EVERYONE because I think a lot of airbrushes get scrapped due to this, regards from the Old Country, JD
alanmac
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,953 posts
Posted: Monday, August 02, 2010 - 07:18 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI believe that I've finally killed my Iwata HP-c plus !! I do not see any visible obstructions in the AB or the nozzle yet nothing (not even water) is being sprayed out. All I get is air and bubbles from the fluid receptacle. Will need to contact Iwata to see where to go from here. (maybe even buy a cheap AB .. this one is turning into a money pit)
your Iwata is probably wounded, not dead. what has probably happened is the needle closing into the paint nozzle (the tiny but oh-so expensive bit at the front) has forced the (fairly) heavy paint into it and invisibly but irrecoverably damaged it due to hydraulic action. the same can happen if you inadvertently let the trigger snap shut. if you turn air pressure RIGHT up paint will then (usually) flow, but this merely proves the problem. take courage, buy a new nozzle and be SO-O-O careful not to let anything too thick go through. I did this twice, once with a cheap brush, once with an Olympos (ouch) but this cured both. hope this helps and tell EVERYONE because I think a lot of airbrushes get scrapped due to this, regards from the Old Country, JD
Hi John
Welcome to armorama. I see its your first post. Please note the date of the original posting and that of the last post before yours. 2008. I think they would have resolved the issue by now.
I'll admit some information is handy to have despite how long ago the original post was but it pays to check the date of a thread before contributing just to be sure its not out of date or even worse, the person is no longer an active member of armorama. It happens
best regards
Alan
KuKLiNsKi
Joined: April 18, 2010
KitMaker: 106 posts
Armorama: 103 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 08:53 AM UTC
guys, when i airbrush my vallejos mixed with distilled water i get effect like when you clean your windows with that spray bottle... lots of tiny drops... did i thinned it too much or could something else be wrong?
Blackstoat
Joined: October 15, 2012
KitMaker: 568 posts
Armorama: 561 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 10:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
guys, when i airbrush my vallejos mixed with distilled water i get effect like when you clean your windows with that spray bottle... lots of tiny drops... did i thinned it too much or could something else be wrong?
I get the same, even when thinning with Vallejo thinner. I've cured the problem by using Tamiya! Sorry, I know it's not what you want to hear, but Tamiya seems to atomise well, and spray flat esp if you add a couple of drops of Tamiya clear to it. I've had nothing but trouble using Vallejo
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