Hi all,
I'd like to build a dio of an Abrams getting readied to go to war in Iraq, I plan to do the tank getting loaded with ammo, engine checked over by mechanics and possibly getting fueled up too.
If I want to go with the maintenence idea would this all be done inside? Or in some kind of workshop? I presume that the ammo would be loaded seperately from the engine check over or would this possibly all be happening at one time in the rush to get ready for the war starting? Also where was the invasion launched from?
I have a few kits of Abrams back at my folks in Scotland and would like to do them for Iraqi scenes but would like to find out what periods I can use them from early OIF until recent times. They are
1. Academy - M1A1 IRAQ 2003 x 2
2. Dragon - USMC M1A1HA
3. Dragon - M1A2SEP
4. Tamiya - M1A2 OIF x2
5. Tamiya - M1A1 with mineplow
I have some others & PE stuff as well as accessories for them but I need to get all my stuff shipped over so I can really get going.
Also,
1. Can I use the VP M1A1 detail set on any M1A2 (it has some interior detailing I'd like to use)?
2. Is all Abrams ammo the same? Or is there any difference between M1, A1 & A2?
3. What was the time frame for uniform change for taner crews & packs for the stowage, by that I mean Alice packs & the back packs etc?
4. Was there different units, brigades etc involved in one place or were they involved in seperate actions? If I was to put say, 3ID tanks with 4-64 tanks would that be wrong?
I think that asks most of what I'm needing at the moment many thanks again for your help,
Kenny.

the m1 (i think) has a 105mm gun and the m1a1 has a 120 mm gun that is all i know about the ammo. also the ha variants have depleted uranium armor and the a2 variants have a new targeting system that has an r2d2 like thing on the turret. use google to find us army specs on the tanks for more info.

All of those variants would work except the M1A2. they did not get in theater until after the invasion - only the 4th ID had them and they were supposed to invade from Turkey but that got nixed politically. There were no 105mm-armed M1s in the 2003 invasion or thereafter - all were M1A1s. There is ammo tubes provided in the M1A2 kit and probably the M1A1 kits but for actual rounds you can find them in some of Tamiya's armor accessory kits.

From my understanding - and I could be wrong here - Academy's set isn't that great, and the M1A1 w/ mineplow isn't per se current with 2003. But you can easily upgrade it with elements from the Tamiya M1A2 kit. Dragon's M1A2 is for current tanks, and the M1A1HA is for USMC vehicles obviously.

The VP M1A1 interior set is crap in terms of accuracy and meant for the older Tamiya kit. I recommend not even using it.

As far as packs pre-invasion, some units had MOLLE - more Marines had it then Army units - but ALICE was still the most common in-country pre-invasion and I'd go with that. Tanker crews wore nomex one-piece jump suits and those didn't change and anyway they were required to wear JSLIST suits (though these weren't put on until right before stepping off). In that case camo is 3-tone BDU color scheme. The jump suits I believe were a forest green color - I'd wait for the armor guys to jump in here to further explain that one. Any US Army uniforms other than the jump suits will be in Desert Camo (DCU) - ACU did not come into service until around 2005.

If you are doing the Marine vehicles, desert MARPAT was being fielded in 2003 but it was not widely worn yet so you can use it sparingly. DCUs should also be substituted in their place.

Jeff

Jeff covered most of it. Here is a little more to chew on.

All three things you described would not usually be happening at the same time. Ammo would be loaded separately from fuel, and maintenance would be conducted separately from both of them.

The launching point for the war was from Kuwait, in the desert on the border. There were no maintenace facilities. We just lived and worked out in the desert.

The units involved were the 1st Marine Divison in the east, and the 3rd Infantry Division (3ID), US Army, in the west. 4-64 AR is a unit within 3ID. In the lager areas before the invasion, units would be pure, meaning it would be all their vehicles together. Even in combat, platoons (4 tanks) usually fight together, along with PLTs of Bradleys. There was some mixing of Army and Marine units as we (3ID) passed through the Marines. We did not normally work with them though. 3 ID had all sand tanks. The Marines had a mix of sand, 3-tone NATO camo, and a few in overall forest green.

M1A1HA is a name given by the model companies and does not exist in the real world. The actual designation is M1A1HC (Heavy Common), meaning it is a Heavy tank w/depleted uranium armor, and Common to both the US Army and USMC. The USMC uses the same basic tank with a couple USMC modifications such as different smoke launchers.

The Academy M1A1HA USMC 2003 kit is pretty inaccuate. The turret is a visually modified M1 turret and is 5mm too short. The tracks are the older T-156 tracks that haven't been used since the early '90s, and they are molded incorrectly. It is lacking in detail compared to the much better Dragon kits, any Dragon kit. I wouldn't use it if I were you. It does have some good, new pieces on the J sprue, but the rest is junk.

The Tamiya M1A1 w/Mine Plow is also an older model that has the T-156 tracks on it. It is missing other up to date items too.

Also, on the older Dragon kits and the Tamiya one w/Mine Plow, there is a box that goes on the right rear of the hull. It is an Auxiallary Power Unit (APU). The hull-mounted APU has not been used since the early '90s either and should not be added for an OIF tank.

Thanks for all your info guys,
Gino what tanks were used early invasion & who did they belong to?
When did the AIM & SEP tanks come into action in Iraq?
What tanks were used by 3ID on invasion and have they been replaced now & if so with what kind?
Can I put the mineplow from the earlier Tamiya kit onto any of the newer Tamiya or Dragon kits or is it not used on the SEP or AIM versions?
My original idea seems like a no go so what would be the logical way of readying an Abrams for the invasion?
Could I do possibly 2 side by side one getting fuelled & the other getting loaded?
Look forward to your reply & any pictures of the various tanks and unit markings would be a great help.
Thanks,
Kenny.

3ID had all M1A1HC and M1A1AIM tanks. An M1A1AIM is a standard M1A1 that has been rebuit to like new standards and has all the latest modifications on it. Like I said, all were sand. 3ID still has all M1A1AIM tanks.

Here is a list of 3rd ID units:

1ST BRIGADE (took the Baghdad airport in heavy fighting)
2-7 IN
3-7 IN
3-69 AR
1-41 FA
11 Eng (SFC Smith helps fight off a large Iraqi counterattack at the airport, and is awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor posthumously)
3 FSB

2ND BRIGADE (had extra BREs and side racks for Abrams and Brads from Kuwaiti APS5 PrePo stocks)
3-15 IN (very heavy fighting at Obj Curley during 2nd Thunder Run - almost overrun)
1-64 AR (heavy fighting in both Thunder Runs)
4-64 AR (heavy fighting in 2nd Thunder Run, had A/3-7 IN as part of TF 4-64 AR)
1-9 FA
10 Eng
26 FSB

3RD BRIGADE (entire brigade went through the heaviest urban fighting of the war on April 7 repelling an intense Iraqi counterattack)
1-15 IN
1-30 IN
2-69 AR
1-10 FA (destroyed 2 Iraqi tanks with direct fire from their M109s)
317 Eng
203 FSB

3-7 CAV was Division CAV Squadron (lead major assaults in Karbala and Najaf)
1-39 FA (MLRS) was Divisional asset. (Fired large preps at Karbala and Baghdad Airport)
703 MSB was divisional.
1-3 ADA

TF 2-70 AR, with 1-41st IN from 1 AD was the 'floating' AR unit used by 82nd, 101st and 3 ID in the south. They had 71 on their sides and writing to indicate they were drawn from stock in Kuwait, 4-1 FA is the BDE artillery but didn't deploy.

The unit with the side stowage bins was 3-15 IN and Bradleys cross-attached
to 1-64 AR and 4-64 AR (A/3-7 IN) of the 2nd Brigade of the 3rd ID. No other
Bradley units of the 3rd ID had the racks. Every vehicle I have seen had
two racks, one on each side. Also, most Bradleys in these units also carried
two jerrycan racks made by the same local vendor. But they were easily lost,
so that is not a necessity.

3-15 IN fought in Najaf, as did 3-7 CAV. There are some famous photos of a
3-15 Bradley approaching a bridge in Al Hillah with a woman trapped between
enemy forces and approaching US forces. 3-15 IN also fought very hard at
Objective Curley in the fight for Baghdad. They were essentially surrounded
at that overpass and fought off many attacks by Syrian jihadists/mercenaries. They were nearly overrun in that fight.

Of note, it was very common for soldiers to hang their duffle bags from the
sides of their Bradleys. A common sight was to see blue tape around these
duffle bags. The tape was used for ID purposes when there were hundreds of
bags lying around waiting to be picked up. Infantry used blue. Also, if you
do a 3-15 Bradley then the battleboard and sideskirt number will be in the
40s. 1-64 numbers would be in the 50s and 4-64 in the 60s. A/3-7 IN (TF 4-46 AR) had 21 as their Bn ID #.

3ID Unit Markings, OIF

00 - Division Command vehicles

01 - 1st BDE
10 - 2-7 Infantry
20 - 3-7 Infantry
30 - 3-69 Armor

02 - 2nd BDE
40 - 3-15 Infantry
50 - 1-64 Armor
60 - 4-64 Armor

03 - 3d BDE
70 - 1-15 Infantry
80 - 1-30 Infantry
90 - 2-69 Armor

50 - DIVARTY
90 - 1-9 FA
70 - 1-41 FA
30 - 1-10 FA
40 - 1-39 FA (MLRS)


71 - TF 2-70 AR, with 1-41st IN from 1 AD was the 'floating' AR unit used by 82nd, 101st and 3 ID in the south.

For the first Thunder Run, only TF 1-64 took part task organized as below:

A Co 1-64 AR
C Co 1-64 AR
C Co 3-15 IN

A Co 1-64 and C Co 3-15 task organized a platoon (4 vehicles) of tanks and Bradleys.

A Co 1-64 AR was
1 Plt A Co 1-64 AR
2 Plt A Co 1-64 AR
2 Plt C Co 3-15 IN

The Bradleys would have 43> ( V pointing right ) as their main marking.

Right front and rear markings would be C 21,22,23,24

Left front and rear would be 3I TF 1-64


The 2nd Thunder Run a few days later incorporated all of 2 Bde.

TF 1-64 AR and TF 4-64 AR went into Baghdad and TF 3-15 IN looked after the route up Highway 8 at the intersections known as Moe, Larry and Curly.

TF 4-64 AR had Bradleys of A Co from 3-7 IN, their side markings were 21.

The 4 Bradleys with A Co 1-64 AR were from 2 Plt / C Co / 3-15 IN, their 'bumper 'numbers would be C 21, C22, C 23, C24 and they would have 43 on the sides with a V pointing to the right they would also have TF 1-64 on them.

M1A2 and M1A2 SEP tanks are only in 3 Corps units (1 CAV, 4 ID, and 3 ACR) They are also only in sand. 3 ACR had only M1A2s. 4ID and 3ACR arrived in Iraq in late April, after we (3ID) had taken Baghdad.

No, you can't really have two tanks next to eachother fueling and loading. These are usually done in different areas for safety.

Yes, you can put a plow on any of the tanks you use. There is usually one plow tank and one roller tank in each PLT.

The best bet if you are looking to make a 3ID tank is the Dragon M1A1AIM. It comes with the extended bustle rack, water can jugs, and decals for a tank from 1-64 AR. Tamiya's M1A1/A2 comes with decals for a tank from 3-69 AR.

Echelon Fine Details has a few sets of decals for invasion Abrams. They have 3 or 4 sets for 3ID and a couple for USMC tanks too. They are reviewed here on Armorama under the Review tab at the top of the page.

Good luck.

Here are some pics to demonstrate the above, compliments of another Abrams thread in the Armor forum.





This ooks like what you may have in mind.


Good luck.

hi gino

i know that i did not start this thread but that made bloody interesting reading.
thank's alot

neil

Thanks, hope it helps out.

I have similar info for the USMC units that participated as well if anyone is interested.

Hi Gino,
Many many thanks for that reply and the pics, their real good & have gave me some more ideas. Could you give me the marine info to as that would be good for some other builds.
Many thanks again,
Kenny.

O.K., here it is.

1ST Marine Division units:


During the Marines main assault north out of Kuwait, the thrust was broken into 2 main groups, the main ground element, with I MEF moving into Basra in support of the British. The main group was broken down in 3 main Regimental Combat Teams (RCT-1, RCT-2, and RCT-7).

RCT-1 was comprised of:
3rd/1st Marines
1st/4th Marines
2nd/23rd Marines
2nd LAR
1st/11th Arty
A co, 1st Tanks
C co, 2nd Eng Bn
AAV's from both 2nd and 4th Assault Amphib Bn


RCT-2 was comprised of:
1st/5th Marines
2nd/5th Marines
3rd/5th Marines
1st LAR
2nd Tanks
2nd/11th Arty
Bravo Co 1st Eng Bn
Bravo Co 4th Eng Bn
AAV's from both 2nd and 3rd AABn


RCT-7 was comprised of:
1st/7th Marines
3rd/7th Marines
3rd/4th Marines
3rd LAR
1st Tanks
3rd/11th Arty
Charlie Co 1st Eng Bn
AAV's from both 2nd and 3rd AABn


Task Force Tarawa was used, from the initial assault out of Kuwait, with the British to secure the port city of Basra, was called I MEF and consisted of units from 2nd MARDIV, elements of 1st MARDIV, 1st UK DIV, and 1st FSSG. (Not 100% sure if this order of battle is correct)

1st/2nd Marines
3rd/2nd Marines
2nd/8th Marines
1st/10th Arty
2nd AABn

After Baghdad fell, Task Force Tripoli was formed to move north into Tikrit area, was a fast moving unit, light on tanks:

1st LAR
2nd LAR
3rd LAR
2nd/25th Golf Co Marines
5th/11th Arty

LAR = Light Armored Reconaissance, i.e., LAVs