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whitewash hairspray method question
FredRMA
California, United States
Joined: March 01, 2006
KitMaker: 72 posts
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Joined: March 01, 2006
KitMaker: 72 posts
Armorama: 66 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 03:36 PM UTC
I have been trying the hairspray method of whitewash and have had mixed results. I first applied the basecoat then hit it with a coat of Future then a coat of hairspray and then a coat of whtie tamiya acryilic. The hot water did not work very well and I had to use a combination of very stiff paint brushes and at one point even used a stiff toothbrush to get the "chipping" effect on the whitewash. I let each and every coat completely dry before applying the next coat. I am thinking that maybe I should apply the flatcoat over the future before putting on the hairspray. Maybe the hairspray is bonding too well with the future and not creating a temporary easily removed temp coat for the white to adhere to and subsequently "washed" off with the hot water. I need some help on technique here any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
Posted: Sunday, September 14, 2008 - 09:08 PM UTC
Fred,
I have not attempted this technique as of yet, I did however read an excellent article in MMiR issue #42/43 by Micheal Rinaldi (painting guide #1) entitled "WWII German Armor in Winter Whitewash" Micheal explains the hairspray technique through a step by step photo tutorial that ecompasses the entire process for achiving a very realistic winter whitewash finish in scale (1/35) including products used and weathering over the whitewash.
An acryilic base coat is applied over the model and allowed to dry followed by a couple of thin coats of hairspray over the entire model and these coats are also allowed to dry (he uses a hairdryer on a low setting to help speed up the drying). This is then followed by the acryilic white and allowed to dry. Then working in small areas of the model a light amount of warm water is applied on the surface for a few seconds to allow the water to react with the hairspray and using a stiff short haired paint brush he begins to rub the acryilic white paint off without effecting the base coat. The end results are excellent and look achivable even by average modelers like me!
Fred, no mention of having to cover the base coat with Future or anything is mentioned in his article. You may be right in your assumtion about the Future. Tamiya acryilics are used in the article. Hope that this helps.
-Eddy
I have not attempted this technique as of yet, I did however read an excellent article in MMiR issue #42/43 by Micheal Rinaldi (painting guide #1) entitled "WWII German Armor in Winter Whitewash" Micheal explains the hairspray technique through a step by step photo tutorial that ecompasses the entire process for achiving a very realistic winter whitewash finish in scale (1/35) including products used and weathering over the whitewash.
An acryilic base coat is applied over the model and allowed to dry followed by a couple of thin coats of hairspray over the entire model and these coats are also allowed to dry (he uses a hairdryer on a low setting to help speed up the drying). This is then followed by the acryilic white and allowed to dry. Then working in small areas of the model a light amount of warm water is applied on the surface for a few seconds to allow the water to react with the hairspray and using a stiff short haired paint brush he begins to rub the acryilic white paint off without effecting the base coat. The end results are excellent and look achivable even by average modelers like me!
Fred, no mention of having to cover the base coat with Future or anything is mentioned in his article. You may be right in your assumtion about the Future. Tamiya acryilics are used in the article. Hope that this helps.
-Eddy
GVoakes
Manitoba, Canada
Joined: September 04, 2007
KitMaker: 193 posts
Armorama: 132 posts
Joined: September 04, 2007
KitMaker: 193 posts
Armorama: 132 posts
Posted: Monday, September 15, 2008 - 02:20 AM UTC
Fred,
I have done a few tanks using the hairspray method, and I'm using it over Future. I've had no problem with removing the white using the hairspray directly on the Future - if I find that the white is not coming off, I apply more water and let it sit for a minute, then start rubbing the paint off with the paint brush. I also tend to use warm (rather than hot) water - the hot water may be softening the Future, causing it to "hold" onto the harispray and Tamiya white better.
What I have also found works is using a little bit of Tamiya thinner. This allows the base colour to bleed through (as it also will eat through the Future) but gives an effect of the white being very thin over the surface colour.
HTH
Grant
I have done a few tanks using the hairspray method, and I'm using it over Future. I've had no problem with removing the white using the hairspray directly on the Future - if I find that the white is not coming off, I apply more water and let it sit for a minute, then start rubbing the paint off with the paint brush. I also tend to use warm (rather than hot) water - the hot water may be softening the Future, causing it to "hold" onto the harispray and Tamiya white better.
What I have also found works is using a little bit of Tamiya thinner. This allows the base colour to bleed through (as it also will eat through the Future) but gives an effect of the white being very thin over the surface colour.
HTH
Grant
rinaldi119
Oregon, United States
Joined: September 22, 2004
KitMaker: 375 posts
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Joined: September 22, 2004
KitMaker: 375 posts
Armorama: 282 posts
Posted: Monday, September 15, 2008 - 06:09 AM UTC
Hi Fred,
Removing the top coat of camo is more a requirement of getting access to the hair spray layer than the temperature of the water. As a matter of process most of the time the water cools to room temperature soon enough, but doesn't alter the process any.
Depending on how opaque the top camo layer is sprayed will help determine how fast it works, because you need to get the water to the hair spray layer. Also how much hair spray and what kind is important as well. I use a fine misting style and apply two light even coats over the entire model.
If it is proving hard to get the chips started, make a tiny chip with something sharp first. I use a variety of stuff to make various marks like toothpicks, stir sticks, dull hobby knife etc. that can break thru the paint easier. Just be gentle, once it starts you shouldn't have too much trouble using a brush.
The spray pattern will make a difference as well. For winter coats try to keep more paint in the joints and corners and less on the flat surfaces for a more realistic look. And don't discount the importance of weathering the paint properly to get the most out of it. It might not look all that hot at first. Filters, washes, dirt, grime, rust and various stains will all make it come alive.
I haven't found any need for a varnish layer such as Future to protect the basecoat, but from others it sounds like it doesn't adversely affect anything. Purely optional on your part.
Like Grant, I've been playing with various thinners to get even more unique looks with this process. Here are some photos of the next subject for the MMiR Painting Guide #3 to be in issue 45, which is at the press now. Note my primary brush is a small flat one and the exhaust was almost completely uncovered because of the use of hair spray giving the look of burned off paint.
HTH,
Mike
Removing the top coat of camo is more a requirement of getting access to the hair spray layer than the temperature of the water. As a matter of process most of the time the water cools to room temperature soon enough, but doesn't alter the process any.
Depending on how opaque the top camo layer is sprayed will help determine how fast it works, because you need to get the water to the hair spray layer. Also how much hair spray and what kind is important as well. I use a fine misting style and apply two light even coats over the entire model.
If it is proving hard to get the chips started, make a tiny chip with something sharp first. I use a variety of stuff to make various marks like toothpicks, stir sticks, dull hobby knife etc. that can break thru the paint easier. Just be gentle, once it starts you shouldn't have too much trouble using a brush.
The spray pattern will make a difference as well. For winter coats try to keep more paint in the joints and corners and less on the flat surfaces for a more realistic look. And don't discount the importance of weathering the paint properly to get the most out of it. It might not look all that hot at first. Filters, washes, dirt, grime, rust and various stains will all make it come alive.
I haven't found any need for a varnish layer such as Future to protect the basecoat, but from others it sounds like it doesn't adversely affect anything. Purely optional on your part.
Like Grant, I've been playing with various thinners to get even more unique looks with this process. Here are some photos of the next subject for the MMiR Painting Guide #3 to be in issue 45, which is at the press now. Note my primary brush is a small flat one and the exhaust was almost completely uncovered because of the use of hair spray giving the look of burned off paint.
HTH,
Mike
210cav
Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
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Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Monday, September 15, 2008 - 06:10 AM UTC
Michael-- outstanding! I know as the guy at MMiR you can do it, but those of us less talented always appreciate (and gain more confidence) by seeing first hand the work of one of our fellow Soldier's.
Thanks
DJ
Thanks
DJ
vanize
Texas, United States
Joined: January 30, 2006
KitMaker: 1,954 posts
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Joined: January 30, 2006
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Posted: Monday, September 15, 2008 - 08:40 AM UTC
maybe not enough coats of hairspray?
FredRMA
California, United States
Joined: March 01, 2006
KitMaker: 72 posts
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Joined: March 01, 2006
KitMaker: 72 posts
Armorama: 66 posts
Posted: Monday, September 15, 2008 - 11:39 AM UTC
Thanks so much for your great replies. It helps a lot. I am building the Bose Stug III G. I have completed "chipping" the road wheels which prompted my questions. I am about to start the white coat on the rest of the model. I did not want to go into it with out some sort of advice. I like the idea of allowing the water to sit for a while soften up the top coat I think that is most likely what I need to do. I actually did consider trying to chip the paint with some sort of object but did not really want to attempt this as I am more of a bull in a china shop than a finesse person.
Thanks for all the help
Thanks for all the help
rinaldi119
Oregon, United States
Joined: September 22, 2004
KitMaker: 375 posts
Armorama: 282 posts
Joined: September 22, 2004
KitMaker: 375 posts
Armorama: 282 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 08:05 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I like the idea of allowing the water to sit for a while soften up the top coat I think that is most likely what I need to do. I actually did consider trying to chip the paint with some sort of object but did not really want to attempt this as I am more of a bull in a china shop than a finesse person.
Thanks for all the help
I just wanted to mention that don't use too much water, work in small sections and you should see the process start after about 20-30 secs or so. It shouldn't take longer than a minute at the most for it to take affect. If too much water is used and left too long, you might get very large oversized chips or worse that may look unrealistic.
I recommend doing another test on a scrap model to get a better feel for it before committing to your project. Not enough mention of practice in such cases, it can never hurt.
Good luck.
HTH,
Mike
CB1000h
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: March 01, 2006
KitMaker: 358 posts
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Joined: March 01, 2006
KitMaker: 358 posts
Armorama: 304 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 08:07 AM UTC
I have found the best under coat to be MM enamels with a semi gloss clear (non arcylic)
I have used Tamiya as a base but the white over coat does not seam to rub off as easy as with the MM enamels plus they are not effected in any way by the water and thats just 1 coat of hair spray
When I used this method the white came right off with a qtip or stiffer brush no hassels like with the Tamiya base coat
I have used Tamiya as a base but the white over coat does not seam to rub off as easy as with the MM enamels plus they are not effected in any way by the water and thats just 1 coat of hair spray
When I used this method the white came right off with a qtip or stiffer brush no hassels like with the Tamiya base coat