Heya, Folks,

Recently picked up the 35th scale Dragon late war M4A2 PTO kit for a good price... While I love Shermans, I am far from an expert, so I thought I'd post a couple'a three questions:

Dave Harper's fantastic book "Tank War Iwo Jima" along with my other references all seem to indicate that the wood plank armor was not used on the M4A2 --- at least on Iwo Jima. Does anyone know or have pictures of an M4A2 on Okinawa or any other battle where they used the wooden add on armor? Dave Harper mentions that there might well have been less M4A2 casualties on Iwo if the field expedient armor had been used. I'm thinking maybe by Okinawa, some units might have adopted the practice.

Also, the kit has the late high bustle turret, which, I believe had improved armor protection over the ammo storage area on the right front side of the turret... That being said, does anyone know if the applique cheek armor was ever used with this turret or was it just not necessary? Me, personally, I would have taken all the help I could get!

Last question: quality-wise, what is the best kit out there in 35th scale for a USMC M4A3? I'd like to do one on Iwo with the Hard Corps hatch cages (which are great!), field expedient armor, etc. I've got the old Tamiya and Ital kits, but I'm sure one of the newer Dragon kits would be the way to go --- the question is: which kit?

Big thanks, as always, folks!

Regards and Aloha,

Johnny B.

I guess I can answer the wooden armor question;
(From various discussions around the net)

M4A2 - C Company, 4th Tank Battalion - Roi-Namur wooden armor C Company

M4A2 - A, B and C Companies of 2nd and 4th Tank Battalions - Saipan and Tinian except for Dog Co of each, wooden armor concrete poured behind the wood on the sponsons and glacis

That’s it for the M4A2 Wooden side armor. There were of course more details for them besides the wooden side armor.

Photos can be found with any Google search of the battles.

But just to let you know there were plenty of battles that used the M4A2;
(Just have to forget the wooden armor)
1st Marine Amphibious Corps Medium Tank Battalion - C Company at Tarawa
3rd Tank BN, and Tank Companies of 4th and 22nd Marines, Provisional Marine
Brigade – Guam
1st Tank Battalion – Peleliu
3rd Tank Battalion - Iwo Jima
1st Tank Battalion and A Company, 2nd Tank Battalion Okinawa

Not sure if this specific kit is a good match for all but someone here might know.

Hope this is of some help,
Good luck with your build,
Bob

I believe the weak spot on the right chin was the result of trouble fitting the main gun into the turret. The mount was too wide, making it necessary to grind out some of the right chin. Early Shermans were shipped in this configuration with a thin right chin. Later, a patch was developed and installed at the factory to correct for the weak spot. Finally, an improved turret casting was developed with the required bulge built in, thus negating the need for a patch. I have never seen a right cheek patch with a late 75mm turret, but never say never with Shermans. Spot welded track link armor does appear on these late turrets as shown on many of the M4A3s in Dave Harper's Iwo Jima book.




No one currently makes a really good kit of the M4A3(75)w Sheman. DMLs recent M4A3(76)W VVSS Premium Edition (6325) probably has the best plastic hull and running gear for such a project, including tracks with EECs. You would need to source the late 75mm turret with loaders hatch from another place (kit or after market). Your PTO Sherman (6462) actually has the necessary turret, so you could cross kit 6325 and 6462 to get an M4A3(75)w VVSS (what you want) and an M4A2(76)w VVSS. Or, you could use 6325 and buy an after-market, late, 75mm turret. Or, you could use 6462 and buy an after-market, late, M4A3 upper hull.

I believe the DML PTO M4A2 (6462) includes an M4A3 engine deck, fittings, and rear hull plate. If you were willing to chop off and correct the angle of the tail plate I believe you could get to an M4A3 with what's in the box. I have not performed this conversion (yet) so I am not positive it will work.

Sheman kits contain so many interchangeable parts one can probably get to an M4A3(75)w VVSS in a hundred different ways. You may even have what you need in your collection right now! For example, I just finished converting Academy's M4A3(105) HVSS dozer into an M4A3(75)w VVSS using leftovers from other Sherman builds. I would not recommend that route, but it illustrates my point.

I just picked up the same book and will probably build Beelzebub. If you have not seen them, Bison Decals recently released two decal sheets covering many of the tanks in the book (35081 and 35082).

-Doug

Thanks a bunch, guys!

It is a drag that with all of the M4A3 kits out from Dragon that there does not seem to be one which stands out. Maybe Tasca will eventually nail that one (hopefully after we see a composite hull Sherman and maybe even a Jumbo... And wouldn't a brand new M32 be fantastic as well?). Granted, German armor is said to sell best, but a top notch M4A3 kit would no doubt sell like crazy.

Thanks again for the input and advice, guys --- much appreciated.

Regards and Aloha,

Johnny B.

Doug-- I believe we would be very interested in seeing any work you do on creating Beelzebub. Sounds like a challenge.
Good luck.
DJ

DML's PTO kit was _intended_ to model _all_ of the Marine Shermans on Iwo Jima. Unfortunately, the consultant (Pawel Krupowicz) relied on a reference (Tank Battles of the Pacific War 1941-1945 by Steve Zaloga) that incorrectly identified all Shermans on Iwo Jima as M4A2s. Many experienced Sherman modeler's knew about this error, and the author readily acknowledged it, but the consultant did not find out until too late. DML was unable to change the contents of the box so close to the release date. That is why the kit comes with add on wood armor and tracks with EECs even though the M4A2s on Iwo Jima did not use either feature.

When the current batch of PTO Shermans sell out, I would bet money we will see a M4A3 Iwo Jima from DML. Given that the M4A2 Tarawa came out in the latter half of 2006, and the M4A2 PTO came out in the first half of 2008, it will probably be late 2009 or early 2010 before we see it.

Tasca has enough Sherman bits in the pipeline to go after other variants, but I would bet on a composite hull next because it is virgin territory and DML makes very good M4A2s and M4A3s. As for a new M32--I don't see it anytime soon. With the Italeri kit readily available for $15US to $20US, it's essentially a cheap, after-market conversion for the kit of your choice. However, I am convinced that with CAD/CAM model design and dropping tooling costs we are at the beginning, rather than the middle or end, or a model revolution. There are a lot of surprises coming in the next 10 years.

I do not buy the "German=sales" argument.

Damraska's first law of model kit production: model kit production follows available references. This applies to marking options seen in kits as well.

The reason we see a dearth of German military kits is because Spielberger, Jentz, Doyle, and others have given us so many detailed references on German vehicles. Kit makers can compile information on such vehicles quickly and easily without a huge research burden. Tiger and Panther tanks are so good because the references available on them are _excellent_. If someone published a great reference on the American T28 super heavy tank (insert the vehicle of your choice), with lots of scale drawings and detail pictures and production information, we would see at least one model of it within 18 months. Books like that just do not exist for Allied subjects. If someone writes some, the models will follow.

-Doug

Thanks, DJ. I actually took a lot of (not very good) pictures of my M4A3(75)w upgunned to 76 project, but I am not all that confident of my skills and thus no corresponding build thread. When I tackle Beelzebub (or another 4th battalion tank) I will try to get past that and post pictures.

-Doug

We can only hope! A T-28 heavy tank in styrene --- whoa! Now THAT would truly be truly amazing thing! There would be a lot of plastic (and the opportunity to use two sets of aftermarket tracks...can you say second mortgage?) on that baby! Given all of the blueprint panzers which have made it into kit form, this really should not be such a far fetched idea.

Fingers crossed for a PTO M4A3 sooner rather than later... Hopefully the Dragon and Academy PTO Shermans have sold well (they got my money for all three kits...not to mention that Italeri hybrid) and that interest in this theater will continue to encourage future kits. I'm thrilled ta see Nemrod starting in on what I hope will be a long a line of Marine figures. My hat is also off to Italeri for the DUKW, the LCM/LCVP as well as the LVT series, which I hope they will continue with an LVT-3 (keep dreaming, I know)...

Regards and Aloha,

Johnny B.