Folks,
I am sort of at a loss for ideas. I am making a WWII Pacific war diorama featuring a Japanese Bunker.
There will be no armor. The theme is Marines closing in on the bunker and Japanese defenders sallying out of the bunker or coming to the aid of the bunker about to be assaulted.
Ok...
My problem is I want to have a removable top to the bunker to look inside and see the machine gun team and bunker interior. How am I going to be able to accomplish that? Keep in mind the amount of earth (celuclay) on top and possible human activity going on near the top and definately at the back.
Dioramas
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Japanese Bunker Diorama Issue
EagleSmack
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Posted: Thursday, September 18, 2008 - 07:59 AM UTC
viennant
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Posted: Thursday, September 18, 2008 - 08:18 AM UTC
Big hole in the bunker cause of artillery? Just a thought...
AJLaFleche
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Posted: Thursday, September 18, 2008 - 08:33 AM UTC
Build the base with the bunker interior and no top. Make very short walls. Now match a piece of thin material tio the open top of the bunker. Add a layer of Celluclay and add vegetation to the top of this. Allow the vegetation to drape over the edges concealing the seam. If there's going to be a problem liftng it, have it extend a bit on one side. Here you will add a tree or dead tree. (Armand Bayardi has several reallly good dead trees that wil work for this.) Run a run a screw trhough the "roof" into the base of the tree and you have a handle to lift up the roof without disturbing the figures insideor out of the bunker.
youngc
Western Australia, Australia
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Posted: Friday, September 19, 2008 - 01:57 AM UTC
Remember lots of Japanese bunkers were constructed with palm trunks and camouflaged with palm leaves.
I wish you luck with your diorama although the idea itself is very un-original.
Having said that, one of my favourite dioramas is this one:
http://www.schusterdiorama-35.cz/en/gallery/1/33/
Chas
I wish you luck with your diorama although the idea itself is very un-original.
Having said that, one of my favourite dioramas is this one:
http://www.schusterdiorama-35.cz/en/gallery/1/33/
Chas
marsiascout
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Posted: Friday, September 19, 2008 - 03:23 AM UTC
Why don´t you make a higher groundwork. The bunker is mostly under the ground so you can keep the side away. The roof is intact and you can still look in it.
Lars
Lars
BobCard
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Posted: Friday, September 19, 2008 - 05:54 AM UTC
An excellent reference is Japanese Pacific Island Defenses 41-45 Osprey Pub.
After saying that, the ceiling would be made of a row of palm logs; there is your separation point from the support walls and the entire ceiling could be lifted up.
Another idea would be to open a side of the bunker on the edge of the diorama.
I’ll dig up some examples of pits and post them this afternoon.
Bob
Just a basic example of a Japanese mg pit.
They also change by Island to some degree so if your modeling a specific battle you might want to check references.
Good luck with your diorama,
Bob
After saying that, the ceiling would be made of a row of palm logs; there is your separation point from the support walls and the entire ceiling could be lifted up.
Another idea would be to open a side of the bunker on the edge of the diorama.
I’ll dig up some examples of pits and post them this afternoon.
Bob
Just a basic example of a Japanese mg pit.
They also change by Island to some degree so if your modeling a specific battle you might want to check references.
Good luck with your diorama,
Bob
kiwibelg
Oost-Vlaanderen, Belgium
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Posted: Saturday, September 20, 2008 - 07:35 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I wish you luck with your diorama although the idea itself is very un-original.
Hi SB,
I'll have to disagree with the comment made by Chas..it isn't often that Japanese military subjects are covered, let alone the inside of detailed Japanese bunker.
I happen to find the idea concerning the bunker quite novel..we see many armor subjects with the turret being able to be removed so the interior can be viewed ...why not an object on the diorama?
Good luck with your dio mate,
Shay
youngc
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Posted: Saturday, September 20, 2008 - 02:05 PM UTC
Shay mate,
I've seen this type of diorama done a few times before. For example, the link which I gave earlier shows marines attaching a bunker, and someone else did a bunker being attacked by marines in the Pacific: War in the East campaign.
What I was trying to say is that the Japanese did not spend the entire war in bunkers being attacked by marines! That seems to be the school of thought for most people when thinking about diorama ideas set in the Pacific.
I agree Shay, it is good to see a Pacific diorama once in a while. But I'm just grumbling as I'd like to see a bit more variation other than 'Tarawa' or 'Iwo Jima' (or 'Marines').
Chas
I've seen this type of diorama done a few times before. For example, the link which I gave earlier shows marines attaching a bunker, and someone else did a bunker being attacked by marines in the Pacific: War in the East campaign.
What I was trying to say is that the Japanese did not spend the entire war in bunkers being attacked by marines! That seems to be the school of thought for most people when thinking about diorama ideas set in the Pacific.
I agree Shay, it is good to see a Pacific diorama once in a while. But I'm just grumbling as I'd like to see a bit more variation other than 'Tarawa' or 'Iwo Jima' (or 'Marines').
Chas
EagleSmack
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Posted: Friday, September 26, 2008 - 09:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I wish you luck with your diorama although the idea itself is very un-original.
Thanks!
EagleSmack
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Posted: Friday, September 26, 2008 - 09:42 AM UTC
Bob... I bought that Osprey book and that is what I am using for reference. It will be constructed using palm tree logs.
The idea of a cut away diorama has just become appealling to me and I am thinking that is the way I will go. It will give me more room up top if I do it that way. The bunker was always planned to be higher up.
The idea of a cut away diorama has just become appealling to me and I am thinking that is the way I will go. It will give me more room up top if I do it that way. The bunker was always planned to be higher up.
BobCard
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Posted: Friday, September 26, 2008 - 10:42 AM UTC
Remember depending on the location could change the actual bunker style and construction. Don't let that grump Chas frighten you off. Most of the fighting the Japanese did from Tarawa on was from some kind of hole. It was rare to have a tank on tank battle and I personally don't want to make 100 Japanese in a bonsai charge, which even they stopped doing eventually. If I remember correctly they didn't even see dead Japanese on Iwo for a few days, they were carting them off through the tunnels.
Maybe you could do the tank battle of China Gal and a Type 94 but that would be Tarawa.
Maybe a bunker at Balikpapan good luck finding some Australian figures. It’s hard to even find an old Matilda kit you have to reconstruct.
Maybe some kind of Japanese tank dug in hole, they did that a lot.
Maybe a dugout the Japanese used as a bunker at a baseball park in Manila, which would be different.
OK I’m done.
S.B. let me know where you might be thinking of making this bunker. Maybe I can drum up a few photos for you for some ideas.
Fingers are crossed for that future Matilda and some good Australian figures.
I’ll add a few of my favorite Japanese Diorama photos when I get home
Good luck,
Bob
Maybe you could do the tank battle of China Gal and a Type 94 but that would be Tarawa.
Maybe a bunker at Balikpapan good luck finding some Australian figures. It’s hard to even find an old Matilda kit you have to reconstruct.
Maybe some kind of Japanese tank dug in hole, they did that a lot.
Maybe a dugout the Japanese used as a bunker at a baseball park in Manila, which would be different.
OK I’m done.
S.B. let me know where you might be thinking of making this bunker. Maybe I can drum up a few photos for you for some ideas.
Fingers are crossed for that future Matilda and some good Australian figures.
I’ll add a few of my favorite Japanese Diorama photos when I get home
Good luck,
Bob
jphillips
Arizona, United States
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Posted: Friday, September 26, 2008 - 11:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Shay mate,
I've seen this type of diorama done a few times before. For example, the link which I gave earlier shows marines attaching a bunker, and someone else did a bunker being attacked by marines in the Pacific: War in the East campaign.
What I was trying to say is that the Japanese did not spend the entire war in bunkers being attacked by marines! That seems to be the school of thought for most people when thinking about diorama ideas set in the Pacific.
I agree Shay, it is good to see a Pacific diorama once in a while. But I'm just grumbling as I'd like to see a bit more variation other than 'Tarawa' or 'Iwo Jima' (or 'Marines').
Chas
Chas is right! Don't forget that the Australian and US Armies also played a part in gaining our victory in the Pacific, although their contribution has often been overlooked.
thomokiwi
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted: Friday, September 26, 2008 - 11:46 AM UTC
Speaking of those forgotten. New Zealanders and many of the small pacific nations also also played a part in Hammering the Japanese. Many in major actions.
As for the Bunker idea. I think its a good one and whoever, whatever assaults what, Good luck and I hope you post your progress.
As for the Bunker idea. I think its a good one and whoever, whatever assaults what, Good luck and I hope you post your progress.
Posted: Saturday, September 27, 2008 - 02:29 AM UTC
I've got a .pdf copy of the 2nd MARDIV's after-action report on Tarawa and there are sketches of several different fighting positions they encountered on the island. It's almost 12mb, I can e-mail it to you, if your e-mail can take an attachment that large, PM me if you want a copy. HTH.
martyncrowther
England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 02:05 AM UTC
good luck mate go for it!
youngc
Western Australia, Australia
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Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 01:01 AM UTC
Hi S.B,
Here is some more info I have found from various websites on the nature of Japanese bunkers. This is an American report of the Japanese bunkers at Buna, which were assaulted and finally defeated by the Australians with the aid of Stuart tanks:
Dugouts were not feasible in the Buna area because the water table is too close to the surface. The Japanese bunkers were, therefore, almost entirely above ground. The base of the bunker was a shallow trench, up to 40 feet in length for the larger bunkers, and 6 to 10 feet for the smaller. A framework of columns and beams was set up, the walls were revetted with coconut logs ranging up to 1½ feet in thickness, and a ceiling of two or three courses of such logs was laid on top. Not content with this construction, the enemy reinforced the wall, using steel oil drums and ammunition boxes filled with sand, as well as log piles and rocks. Over all this were piled earth and sand mixed with short logs, coconuts, and the like. When the bunker, 7 to 8 feet high, was camouflaged with fast-growing jungle vegetation, it became almost impossible to spot in the tangled underbrush. The campaign was to prove that as a shelter it would withstand almost anything but a direct hit by a heavy artillery shell with delayed-action fuze. Entrances to the bunkers usually were in the rear, covered by fire from adjacent bunkers, and often angled so that a hand grenade tossed in the door would not kill the occupants.
Some of the bunkers had fire slits for machine guns or rifles. In this case snipers in the trees overhead served as observers. The snipers would fire warning shots when the troops approached, and then a machine-gun burst would come from the bunker. The bunkers, however, were principally used for shelter during aerial bombardment and shelling. After such attacks the Japanese crawled out along the communication trenches and took up firing positions in individual emplacements to the sides and front of the bunkers. The Japanese worked steadily to improve and strengthen their system of defenses and constructed new lines as they were forced back.
Here is a typical interior of a Japanese bunker in the Duropa Plantation, Buna. Note the sand-filled oil drums used to reinforce the palm-log structure.
An allied soldier inspects the entrance to a bunker.
Aussie infantry work in tandem with Australian manned Stuart tanks to overcome Japanese bunkers. 25 Japanese (not seen) flee from a wrecked pillbox 150 yards away. This is a classic example of bunker busting, pioneered by the Australians. The techniques were implemented by the Americans in later campaigns, except they had Sherman tanks and flamethrowers and consequently, received most of the credit for 'inventing' the tactic. Just a little moan from me This photo was taken during the actual fighting by the famous Kiwi photographer, George Silk.
Balikpapan would also be an interesting subject. Just type 'Japanese bunker' in the AWM collections search and you will be amazed at the photographic documentation of the bunkers at Balikpapan.
True!
I'm sure 100 Japanese wielding bonsai wouldn't be that threatening!
Chas
Here is some more info I have found from various websites on the nature of Japanese bunkers. This is an American report of the Japanese bunkers at Buna, which were assaulted and finally defeated by the Australians with the aid of Stuart tanks:
Dugouts were not feasible in the Buna area because the water table is too close to the surface. The Japanese bunkers were, therefore, almost entirely above ground. The base of the bunker was a shallow trench, up to 40 feet in length for the larger bunkers, and 6 to 10 feet for the smaller. A framework of columns and beams was set up, the walls were revetted with coconut logs ranging up to 1½ feet in thickness, and a ceiling of two or three courses of such logs was laid on top. Not content with this construction, the enemy reinforced the wall, using steel oil drums and ammunition boxes filled with sand, as well as log piles and rocks. Over all this were piled earth and sand mixed with short logs, coconuts, and the like. When the bunker, 7 to 8 feet high, was camouflaged with fast-growing jungle vegetation, it became almost impossible to spot in the tangled underbrush. The campaign was to prove that as a shelter it would withstand almost anything but a direct hit by a heavy artillery shell with delayed-action fuze. Entrances to the bunkers usually were in the rear, covered by fire from adjacent bunkers, and often angled so that a hand grenade tossed in the door would not kill the occupants.
Some of the bunkers had fire slits for machine guns or rifles. In this case snipers in the trees overhead served as observers. The snipers would fire warning shots when the troops approached, and then a machine-gun burst would come from the bunker. The bunkers, however, were principally used for shelter during aerial bombardment and shelling. After such attacks the Japanese crawled out along the communication trenches and took up firing positions in individual emplacements to the sides and front of the bunkers. The Japanese worked steadily to improve and strengthen their system of defenses and constructed new lines as they were forced back.
Here is a typical interior of a Japanese bunker in the Duropa Plantation, Buna. Note the sand-filled oil drums used to reinforce the palm-log structure.
An allied soldier inspects the entrance to a bunker.
Aussie infantry work in tandem with Australian manned Stuart tanks to overcome Japanese bunkers. 25 Japanese (not seen) flee from a wrecked pillbox 150 yards away. This is a classic example of bunker busting, pioneered by the Australians. The techniques were implemented by the Americans in later campaigns, except they had Sherman tanks and flamethrowers and consequently, received most of the credit for 'inventing' the tactic. Just a little moan from me This photo was taken during the actual fighting by the famous Kiwi photographer, George Silk.
Balikpapan would also be an interesting subject. Just type 'Japanese bunker' in the AWM collections search and you will be amazed at the photographic documentation of the bunkers at Balikpapan.
Quoted Text
...Don't let that grump Chas frighten you off...
True!
Quoted Text
...100 Japanese in a bonsai charge...
I'm sure 100 Japanese wielding bonsai wouldn't be that threatening!
Chas
EagleSmack
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Posted: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 04:53 AM UTC
Chas... that picture of the Japanese bunker interior was perfect. That is going to help a great deal.
I've got most of the palm logs done and I am working on the bunker design using the Ospreys Japanes Defense book as reference.
I can't wait to get this "un-original" idea really going!
I've got most of the palm logs done and I am working on the bunker design using the Ospreys Japanes Defense book as reference.
I can't wait to get this "un-original" idea really going!