Hello all,

I wonder if anybody can help me. I am starting with my VERY first diorama and need some assistance.

I have bought a couple of things but do not where to start. I have formed a idea in my mind, but do not know if it will work, I mean if it will be historically correct.

I have a M-18 Hellcat, which will be the main focus point of the diorama (or that is what I am aiming for at least!), a german goverment ruin (VP) and the first two figures I have is a US Tank crew bailing out (also VP). This I want to incorporate in an all out batlle scene!

I have to get some more figures though (US and Germans). What I have in mind is basically the crew of the tank bailing out (need to get 3 more US tank crew members) whilst under heavy fire from german infantry soldiers. Inside the ruins, there must be US infantry soldiers trying to provide cover by shooting at the german soldiers! Add to that two german soldiers running away from the tank/cover fire which are actually shot whilst running towards the safety of a barricade where the rest of the german soldiers (firing at the tank/US soldiers).

Does this sound like too much? Did these type of battles actually occur between US and Germany at the end of WWII? There are also some more questions surrounding the type of groundwork that I need. If there is a governmental building, it would occur in a fairly large german city, right? What type of sidewalk and street? What can I use as a barricade for the german soldiers?

Information overload!!!!!!!

Hey Cheetah, welcome to the site. First off, I think you have a great idea, but... I think it is alot to do if it is your first diorama....

Firstly you should invision what you are trying to create, then maybe sketch it out on paper. Construct the Hellcat and buildings and temporarally place it on a piece of plywwod. This will give you a visual picture not just the scene you are trying to create, but the scale. You do not want to take away from the focus of the diorama, in this case the bailing crewmen from the Hellcat. Remember too little is better then too much, and if you feel your point isn't being drawn to the veiwer, then you can always add to it. I always make a an effort for the scene to be viewed from all points of direction (front, back, left right, and from above). Everything that is happening in the scene should be clearly viewable. Another point is the base should be just big enough to fit the diorama, do not have empty space. Empty space draws the viewers eyes away from the scene.

Also, do not limit yourself to just Verlinden figures. Warriors, Jaguar, DML, Coree, etc. make great figures and might just be what you are looking for. One figure might have the head you want, another a pose, another a gesture.

As for the battle being accurate, hey anything was possible. Alot of battles accured when Berlin was being taken over (just ask the Russians). Use your imagination, and most of all have fun. If you have the opportunity, pick up Verlinden's "How to builld dioramas" books, or even Shep Paine's book. They are great and offer great advice. Good luck, and have fun!!!!! :-) :-)

Thanks for the input Tiger, much appreciated :-)

I know that there is a lot of different figures available, but where I stay, that is the best quality figures available - it is either that or Tamiya!

I'm sure I will be able to order some figures over the web. I've seen that some of the Warrior figures are very good.

I'm also thinking about scratchbuilding the back portion of the ruin, but I have no reference material. Where can I find these type of things on the web?

I have great attention to detail and would like to diorama to be accurate. The reason why this is my first diorama is that I have been painting models now for about three years but got my first airbrush for my birthday this week and because I never had the courage to tackle a diorama with a paint brush, I thought it is high time to build a diorama.

EB

I'll say that what you have is a busy diorama... it will be important to carefully and clearly lay it out to tell the story you are implying... this means a lot of space. There are a number of fine Allies figures available from Yanks, and for the Germans laying down the fire, Gunze-Sangyo has a trio of nicely done werhmacht soldiers in the firing position. Jaguar and Warriors may also have quite a few appropriate treats for you. In the "plastic" selections, DML by far has the best detail and accuracy, although a few Tamiya sets offer some interesting poses - typically though, you may find in working with plastic kits that the heads are poorly done... in such a case, clip them off, and substitute some of the fine Head / Hands collections from both Verlinden and Hornets. - Keith Magee

KF,

When you say it looks like the diorama will be "busy", do you mean definite no-no or rather try to scale it down.

I want to start asap, but can't get my head arounf the planning portion. The last thing I want is it to look like a dinner plate with everything spilling over the side!!!

EB

Welcome Cheetah!
As I have my second dio in production, I´ve been dealing with similar thoughts.
To be my first dio I was thinking of making an Omaha beach scene with maybe 10 allied soldiers. I ended up in four.
I believe it will take time to learn to simplify things as much as possible to have your idea as clear and visible as possible. I started with four figures, now I only have one sniper and a spruce tree covered with snow.
It requires balls to "edit" a scene, maybe remove something that you would REALLY love to see in there, but which could ultimately draw viewer´s attention to the wrong place. That depends, of course, what your goal is.
The best all-around advice from my graphic design professor was "Simplify."
I´ve noticed it can be quite painful sometimes...

Have fun!

Toni

I haven't done a diorama in years, but I'm planning a couple as I get back into armor. The idea does indeed sound a bit too busy, if I may be so bold. The post about using other figures is worth considering, as it really opens things up. For example:
What if the crew isn't really "bailing out?" Let the accompanying infantry be poking around the ruin, and find a guy who can be shouting back at the M18. Inside the ruin, the PBI has found a couple of cases of damn good wine, and everybody's bailing out to get their share. No combat, but plenty of drama and interest and a little but of humor, too. Just a thought...

Greg

Thanks for the input Envar. See, that is exactly what I am scared of, overdoing this.

I'm also thinking about 10 figures, but sometimes my imagination runs away and I feel like adding 20 more and building a complete city block!!! I think I must go back to the drawing board and start a wee bit smaller.

EB
"Go big or go home"

Greg, there is nothing wrong with being bold, rather that than me carrying on with this and ending up after weeks of late nights (never mind the angry wife !) with complete and utter dissapointment.

I like the idea of them finding wine and bailing out, just a pity that in the VP set, the one crewman is actually dead! Unless he died of thirst....... :-)

Like I said earlier - back to the drawing board I go....

Edwin

"Go big or go home"

Well, exactly, the obviously WIA/KIA guy would have to go with the whimsical wine idea. But the others, with the urgent get-off-this-thing pose would work. Now, for the original idea let me offer the following: let the enemy be unseen. I have Shep Paine's original dio book an in it he has an M16 halftrack with a wounded crewman being tended. The gun turret and a rifleman are all pointing off-scene and up, with another crewman pointing and shouting the same direction. The implied enemy aircraft is nowhere but in our minds as we view the scene. This kind of implied thread seems to work well, and keeps scenes manageable in terms of scope and size. So says the guy just planning right now, not building!

The reason I´m going "small" instead of "big" is that I´m just learning things and I want the set to be manageable, so that I can fully concentrate on the figures and techniques. That´s my goal. I´m a little afraid that if I try something too big in the beginning, at some point I will just freeze with it and don´t know how to continue anymore. (Happened to me before with a couple of illustration projects.
Oh what the hell.
Just find your own way of doing things and enjoy.

Toni

Greg/Envar

Ten out of ten to both of you!!!! Whilst I am at home I might as well think "small"!

While I was sitting here with my thinking cap on , I was actually thinking exactly what Greg mentioned, cut down on the figures, but still keep the idea.

Maybe a sniper or Panzerfaust grenadier in the ruin, with "dead" crewman and his bailing companion with the tank plus maybe one or two US soldiers, one pointing towards the ruin and maybe runing up towards the tank, readying his rifle?

How about it?

Yes I think you're on the right track right now...
I'm also starting with dios, and I'm trying to keep small, with only a few figures.
In a first time, I'll try to depict no more than 1 action. So it's important to choose it well to keep all that drama ! With several actions, the "reader" may get lost...

keep up with the great ideas !

penpen

Phew! I actually thought that painting it would be the hardest! Maybe someone can help me with something else - As I ahve my idea now, it would consist of 5 figures (German sniper, dead/wounded crewman, "bailing crewman", two US infantry). But I just though about something else - the M-18 Hellcat has a crew of 5 and the crew compartment is open.

The dead crewman is hanging out the drivers hatch, the other driver hatch is closed, the bailing crewman is jumping out the crew compartment - that leaves me with the crewman that dissapeared.

I meant " that leaves me with TWO creman that dissapeared

Who's to say the two missing aren't still inside the tank in an incapacitated state. Since the M18 is an open turret, you could just have the legs of one of the missing crewmen viewable through the turret. This could be just about any figure. Maybe laying on the floor of the tank. One of the others outside could be yelling for someone to help get him out. Not all scenes have to be filled with the info you are trying to convey. Like Greg had mentioned earlier. Created situations such as that is what makes scenes interesting. It sort of forces the viewer to use his or her imagination. (Just don't leave em guessing or hanging)
I like the ideas everyone has given you.
I don't normally build dioramas but, when I do I always make em small. I'm a firm believer in "little is more" .
Let us know what you finally decide upon.
PS, welcome abaord cheetah.

Edwin,
Glad to see you finally made it onboard as a registered user!

Sounds like a great idea for a dio. Good luck with it and keep us updated.

Cheers,
Jim

Hi Cheetah,
Sounds like a nice challenge you've set yourself there but i would say in agreement with the others that you should try and scale it down by using less figs or make the scene longer instead of rectangular . If the germans have knocked out the tank with a panzershreck or panzerfaust then i think the effective distance would have been about 60/100ft. You obviously could be closer so try and scale it accordingly!!!!!!!My recommendation for german action figs would be from Dragon! Nice and cheap and in some lovely poses! The overall scene though(and this is what i have found most important )is that it will actually be able to be displayed! Too wide and it won't fit on the shelf, too long and the wife has no room for her ornaments!lol Good luck and don't forget to post your pics!