...and so little knowledge...It`s giving me a headache when I see so many options for parts of this Dragon kit, wheels,return rollers,turret,gun barrels...is there any info on how to properly match those parts so as not to make a fool of myself after I join one option of wheels with a wrong turret or,god forbid,barrel...?
Help,plz... am not a shermaholic...
plus,I see that in painting options are two tanks with a black applied camo? i have seen original photo of one of them,and it doesn`t look like anything other than a possible fuel spillage and shadows...
Hosted by Darren Baker
M4A3 76(W) so many options...?
Lisec
Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: September 13, 2006
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Joined: September 13, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 11:59 PM UTC
jowady
Joined: June 12, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2008 - 08:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
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plus,I see that in painting options are two tanks with a black applied camo? i have seen original photo of one of them,and it doesn`t look like anything other than a possible fuel spillage and shadows...
Black was indeed used as a camo color, particularly in 1st Army.
John
Damraska
California, United States
Joined: October 06, 2006
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Joined: October 06, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2008 - 09:05 AM UTC
Think of a Sherman tank like a car. You can paint it a different color, buy new rims, add a sunroof, or even buy the upgraded model with a bigger engine, but they are all the same car. Owners mix and match all these features and more, but all of the resulting cars are still the same model.
I presume you are asking about an M4A3(76)w VVSS (as opposed to HVSS).
The upper hull, engine deck, exhaust system, and engine deck door props are specific to the M4A3--other variants differ in these features. (Note that the upper hull of a late model M4A2 is the same as the one in your kit accept for the angle of the tail plate.)
The wheels on a VVSS Sherman are interchangeable from the earliest to latest models, like the rims on a car, and vary from tank to tank. For such a late model tank, the pressed, 6 spoke wheels (they are solid with six spokes; no holes) are the most common. Your best bet is to consult a picture and use whatever that vehicle has. In some cases, you will see a mixture of types.
The bogie housings on a VVSS Sherman are interchangeable from earliest to latest models, and vary from tank to tank. There are three major variations--a truck with the return roller directly above, a truck with the a flat arm on one side holding the roller, and a truck with a raised arm on one side holding the roller. The trucks are interchangeable from side to side on the real tank. The arm assemblies with the rollers bolt to either side of the truck, as appropriate. Normally, the return roller assembly bolts to the back of the truck facing the back of the tank, but occasionally you see one oriented in the other direction. On a late model Sherman, the truck with the raised arm and roller at the back is typical. Your best bet is to consult a picture and use whatever that vehicle has. In some cases, you will even see a mixture of types.
The skids on top of a VVSS bogie housing are interchangeable from earliest to latest models and vary from tank to tank. There are three types: symmetrical with a bump in the middle, offset with a bump to one side, and overhanging one side. The latter is the latest variation and by far the most common. Skids never appear on bogie trucks with the return roller directly above. All three skid types will fit any variation of the later trucks (side mounted return roller on straight or upswept arm). Your best bet is to consult a picture and use whatever that vehicle has. In some cases you will even see a mixture of types.
Sherman transmission covers (the nose of the tank) are interchangeable from earliest to latest models and vary from tank to tank. Technically, each transmission cover goes with a particular transmission, but this is not an externally visible feature. On a late model tank the 'pointed', single piece transmission is the most typical by far. Your best bet is to consult a picture and use whatever that vehicle has.
Any version of the M4A3 as described above can use any Sherman turret--75mm, 76mm, or 105mm. However, the internal arrangement of the tank varies with the turret; one cannot arbitrarily switch turrets in the field.
Shermans with the 75mm turret come in two major variants: wet and dry. This refers to the method by which the ammunition is stored and WHERE it is stored. On a dry stowage tank, the ammunition largely resides in three racks in the sponsons. It was discovered that penetrating shots often hit these racks, setting off the ammunition. The quick fix for this problem was to weld three patches on the sponson sides over the racks. After the first year of use most dry stowage Shermans exhibit this feature as a field modification OR factory applied fitting. Later, wet stowage tanks were introduced. In these tanks, the ammo was moved to bins on hull floor surrounded by a liquid bath (for fire suppression). Wet stowage tanks do not have ammo rack armor patches.
I will not discuss further variations on the 75mm turret since they do not apply to your situation.
Shermans with the 76mm turret are always of the wet variety--no ammo rack hull patches. The 76mm turret comes in two major variants--one with a ovular, single piece loader's hatch and one with a round, two piece (split) loader's hatch. Both variants are common through Korea and beyond. Your best bet is to consult a picture and use whatever that vehicle has.
The commander's station features a copula that comes in two interchangeable types: a flat, rotating ring with a two piece (split) hatch, and a tall, fixed ring with vision ports all around and a single hatch (vision copula). The vision copula was introduced later and is common to almost all late model Shermans. The vision copula is normally mounted with the hatch opening to the right rear (with barrel to North, SE position) but some crews changed this, usually so that the hatch opening to the right (East position). Your best bet is to consult a picture and use whatever that vehicle has.
The 76mm gun comes in 4 interchangeable types: a smooth barrel all the way to the muzzle, a barrel with the muzzle machined to accept a muzzle break, a barrel with the muzzle machined to accept a muzzle break and sealed with a protective ring, and a barrel with a muzzle break installed. All types are common on late model M4A3 tanks so your best bet is to consult a picture and use whatever that vehicle has.
There are many other small points of variation on Shermans--tool stowage, siren, front track guards, light plugs, antenna configuration, commander's machine gun mount and position, and so on. Again, your best bet is to work from a picture.
If you want a generic, M4A3(76)s VVSS use these features: pressed, 6-spoke wheels, bogie with raised roller arm to rear, overhanging skid, pointed, single piece transmission cover, vision copula. Oval or split loader's hatch is fine. Any barrel is fine--in my opinion the muzzle break makes the tank look more ominous.
As for the return rollers in the kit, I believe one set has two depressions in the edge of the roller (not the hole through the middle), and the other set has four. I believe the latter are more accurate, but once mounted you cannot really tell the difference.
-Doug
I presume you are asking about an M4A3(76)w VVSS (as opposed to HVSS).
The upper hull, engine deck, exhaust system, and engine deck door props are specific to the M4A3--other variants differ in these features. (Note that the upper hull of a late model M4A2 is the same as the one in your kit accept for the angle of the tail plate.)
The wheels on a VVSS Sherman are interchangeable from the earliest to latest models, like the rims on a car, and vary from tank to tank. For such a late model tank, the pressed, 6 spoke wheels (they are solid with six spokes; no holes) are the most common. Your best bet is to consult a picture and use whatever that vehicle has. In some cases, you will see a mixture of types.
The bogie housings on a VVSS Sherman are interchangeable from earliest to latest models, and vary from tank to tank. There are three major variations--a truck with the return roller directly above, a truck with the a flat arm on one side holding the roller, and a truck with a raised arm on one side holding the roller. The trucks are interchangeable from side to side on the real tank. The arm assemblies with the rollers bolt to either side of the truck, as appropriate. Normally, the return roller assembly bolts to the back of the truck facing the back of the tank, but occasionally you see one oriented in the other direction. On a late model Sherman, the truck with the raised arm and roller at the back is typical. Your best bet is to consult a picture and use whatever that vehicle has. In some cases, you will even see a mixture of types.
The skids on top of a VVSS bogie housing are interchangeable from earliest to latest models and vary from tank to tank. There are three types: symmetrical with a bump in the middle, offset with a bump to one side, and overhanging one side. The latter is the latest variation and by far the most common. Skids never appear on bogie trucks with the return roller directly above. All three skid types will fit any variation of the later trucks (side mounted return roller on straight or upswept arm). Your best bet is to consult a picture and use whatever that vehicle has. In some cases you will even see a mixture of types.
Sherman transmission covers (the nose of the tank) are interchangeable from earliest to latest models and vary from tank to tank. Technically, each transmission cover goes with a particular transmission, but this is not an externally visible feature. On a late model tank the 'pointed', single piece transmission is the most typical by far. Your best bet is to consult a picture and use whatever that vehicle has.
Any version of the M4A3 as described above can use any Sherman turret--75mm, 76mm, or 105mm. However, the internal arrangement of the tank varies with the turret; one cannot arbitrarily switch turrets in the field.
Shermans with the 75mm turret come in two major variants: wet and dry. This refers to the method by which the ammunition is stored and WHERE it is stored. On a dry stowage tank, the ammunition largely resides in three racks in the sponsons. It was discovered that penetrating shots often hit these racks, setting off the ammunition. The quick fix for this problem was to weld three patches on the sponson sides over the racks. After the first year of use most dry stowage Shermans exhibit this feature as a field modification OR factory applied fitting. Later, wet stowage tanks were introduced. In these tanks, the ammo was moved to bins on hull floor surrounded by a liquid bath (for fire suppression). Wet stowage tanks do not have ammo rack armor patches.
I will not discuss further variations on the 75mm turret since they do not apply to your situation.
Shermans with the 76mm turret are always of the wet variety--no ammo rack hull patches. The 76mm turret comes in two major variants--one with a ovular, single piece loader's hatch and one with a round, two piece (split) loader's hatch. Both variants are common through Korea and beyond. Your best bet is to consult a picture and use whatever that vehicle has.
The commander's station features a copula that comes in two interchangeable types: a flat, rotating ring with a two piece (split) hatch, and a tall, fixed ring with vision ports all around and a single hatch (vision copula). The vision copula was introduced later and is common to almost all late model Shermans. The vision copula is normally mounted with the hatch opening to the right rear (with barrel to North, SE position) but some crews changed this, usually so that the hatch opening to the right (East position). Your best bet is to consult a picture and use whatever that vehicle has.
The 76mm gun comes in 4 interchangeable types: a smooth barrel all the way to the muzzle, a barrel with the muzzle machined to accept a muzzle break, a barrel with the muzzle machined to accept a muzzle break and sealed with a protective ring, and a barrel with a muzzle break installed. All types are common on late model M4A3 tanks so your best bet is to consult a picture and use whatever that vehicle has.
There are many other small points of variation on Shermans--tool stowage, siren, front track guards, light plugs, antenna configuration, commander's machine gun mount and position, and so on. Again, your best bet is to work from a picture.
If you want a generic, M4A3(76)s VVSS use these features: pressed, 6-spoke wheels, bogie with raised roller arm to rear, overhanging skid, pointed, single piece transmission cover, vision copula. Oval or split loader's hatch is fine. Any barrel is fine--in my opinion the muzzle break makes the tank look more ominous.
As for the return rollers in the kit, I believe one set has two depressions in the edge of the roller (not the hole through the middle), and the other set has four. I believe the latter are more accurate, but once mounted you cannot really tell the difference.
-Doug
Lisec
Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: September 13, 2006
KitMaker: 306 posts
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Joined: September 13, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2008 - 09:59 AM UTC
WOW,thanks for the info!
HONEYCUT
Victoria, Australia
Joined: May 07, 2003
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Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2008 - 08:41 PM UTC
Wow indeed!
A great wealth of info for those venturing into Shermanation for the first time...
Matija, I'd go with the options of the fancy zigzag drive sprocket, upswept return roller arms, sharp fronted one piece transmission cover, turret that has the 360 degree vision block cupola and split hatch for the loader (cupola on the right and hatch on the left when viewed from the rear) and barrel with thread protector.
This would realise the most common M4A3(76)W as seen in my reference photos, mostly in Germany.
HTH
Brad
A great wealth of info for those venturing into Shermanation for the first time...
Matija, I'd go with the options of the fancy zigzag drive sprocket, upswept return roller arms, sharp fronted one piece transmission cover, turret that has the 360 degree vision block cupola and split hatch for the loader (cupola on the right and hatch on the left when viewed from the rear) and barrel with thread protector.
This would realise the most common M4A3(76)W as seen in my reference photos, mostly in Germany.
HTH
Brad
GeraldOwens
Florida, United States
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2008 - 11:41 PM UTC
Quoted Text
...and so little knowledge...It`s giving me a headache when I see so many options for parts of this Dragon kit, wheels,return rollers,turret,gun barrels...is there any info on how to properly match those parts so as not to make a fool of myself after I join one option of wheels with a wrong turret or,god forbid,barrel...?
Help,plz... am not a shermaholic...
plus,I see that in painting options are two tanks with a black applied camo? i have seen original photo of one of them,and it doesn`t look like anything other than a possible fuel spillage and shadows...
Steve Zaloga has a book published by Osprey on "Modelling the US Army M4 (76mm) Sherman Medium Tank" (as well as a companion volume on the 75 mm models). It walks you through the process and points out the basic improvements needed by the current crop of kits, as well as the most common field modifications. He's also a terrific model builder and the book has valuable modeling and diorama tips. He also has books in Osprey's New Vanguard series on the tanks themselves with the usual camouflage schemes. Zaloga also wrote several excellent photo books on Shermans and US armor combat for Concord.
Squadron's "Sherman in Action" is an oldie but a goodie, and it will walk you through the development of the Sherman family as well as offering an excellent selection of operational photos. They also publish a Sherman Walkaround book with close ups of preserved vehicles.
Grumpyoldman
Consigliere
Florida, United States
Joined: October 17, 2003
KitMaker: 15,338 posts
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Joined: October 17, 2003
KitMaker: 15,338 posts
Armorama: 7,297 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 21, 2008 - 02:18 PM UTC
Thanks for the info Doug.