I'm hoping that some of you could help me out with my new project. I would like a photo of an actual tank with this armor. Also any historical info. If some of you have built this type of sherman, a picture of your model would be helpful. Thanks. This is my first post, be easy...

Gary,

It's plate armour... I couldn't reel off the number, but it took me 5 secs to find it on the VP site... http://www.verlinden-productions.com/vp_htm_1801_2400/2121.html



Rudi

Well: the stuff on the turret and hull is similar to the armor that's included in the DML M4A3E8 Thunderbolt kits. That stuff over the suspension --- I've never seen ANYTHING resembling those skirts on a Sherman.

The skirt over the suspension is the part that I need some help with. Sure it is a basic looking instillation but I was hoping for a photo of a real tank equipped this way. Thanks for posting the picture of the kit.

Ken: that kit was discussed over on ML before. Lots of Shermanaholics there. No one has EVER seen a mock up like that skirt armor. Chalk it up to too many resin fumes at the VP workshop. Don't do it. It's total bull

Ken, there was NEVER any kind of modification like this done to ANY M4. Total, utter and complete fantasy on the part of Verlinden. So the sideskirt you're referring to should be ditched.

If anything this is a (yet another) reason to buy from companies like Formations. They don't sell garbage like this...

This kit is really to model one of the uparmored Shermans on Okinawa and not even close to correct. The Army shops were adding all sorts of stuff - I think operations were over before they ever used any. The kit isn't any good - You'd be better off just scratching the armor plate yourself.

Chris

So Verlinden was high the day he cast those side skirts. Thanks for confirming that. I have read a bunch of books and looked at many photos on the Internet and never come across anything suggesting those were really used. I'm still going to use the parts. I little imagination doesn't hurt you know. I will post pictures when I am close to being done.

Ken, of the three elements the closest to reality is the add-on turret armor. The front glacis armor was also used but it was extemporised from sheets of armor. Look at the thickness of the resin and, in real life, this would add probably another 5-10 tons to the weight of the tank...

Post it when you've done it - I think we've got a 'What-if?' Forum - be good to see it!

The kit itself is fantasy. I do have some photos from Titian that show front added on armor that looks like it might be plate but what I think is plywood and a photo from both Iwo Jima and Okinawa that shows plating being welded on the sides of M4’s large enough to cover the suspension in one. Nothing like that kit, no large bolted on plates anywhere that I’m aware of. If and when I can again upload photos I will edit this and include them. You can also just send me a message with your email and I’ll just email them to you.
Good luck with your build,
Bob

[quote]Ken, of the three elements the closest to reality is the add-on turret armor. The front glacis armor was also used but it was extemporised from sheets of armor. Look at the thickness of the resin and, in real life, this would add probably another 5-10 tons to the weight of the tank...

I have read heard two stories on the front glacis armor of the Sherman.
One is indeed sheets of 1" steel, sometimes two or more laid upon each other.

The second story I heard or read about was actually taking a cutting torch to the front glacis of a damaged Sherman and lifting it out intact (including gun travel lock/headlights, etc) and dropping it on the front glacis of a working tank. (clearing any obstructions first of course and a cutout for the hull MG). The M4A3E8 Thunderbolt VII appears to have that setup.

In any event, the thickness of the front armour on the glacis should be scale 2"- 2.5"

The bolts appear to be a bit big on that addon armor.

I guess just to prove it did happen.
History link 101.com is where the photo comes from.



Not any where like the kit but it is side skirts covering the suspension.
Bob

Thanks Bob for the good picture of the mystical side armor that Jim and Roy say can't exist. I will give you guys one thing, it looks NOTHING like the kit. However, now we know that it does exist, and that it is obviously made of scrap. Maybe Verlinden wasn't as high on those resin fumes as we think he was. Thanks Bob for a definite answer and something for those Shemaholics to dwell on!

Well, there's a substantial difference between Bob's pic and the Verlinden thing...

Bob, any idea where that pic originated?

I am almost sure that photo is of the Army's Maint. Depot on Okinawa - that is the sort of uparmoring they were doing at the final stages of the campaign. Nice photo!

Chris

No disrespect ment Jim. The kit is nothing like the picture. But that is just one tank, surely there were others.

Just to add some fuel into this discussion... (I'm not saying it's like the kit nor I'm going to speculate about Mr. Verlinden's fume accidents).



Source: Concord's #7004 Tank Battles of the Pacific War 1941-45, page 71.

The description says: By the end of the Okinawa campaign, the US Army tank battalions were showing more interest in the Marine practice of adding appliqué armor to protect against close Japanese infantry attack. This is an example of a composite hull M4 fitted out in an Army ordnance yard on Okinawa towards the end of the campaign.

Hey! Now that's cool! I retract what I said about never seeing slab/skirt armor on a Sherman. However, I think VP issuing theirs along w/M4A3 slab armor is still bovine poop.

Great picture!!!! Now we are getting somewhere. Thanks

I completely agree - I really hoped we had passed the point of accepting the crap that Verlinden produced as gospel. Obviously, I was wrong....

Thanks for two images though - interesting...