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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Berlin Brigade F40A and E Btry, 320 FA Colors
ghorine
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Posted: Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 09:27 AM UTC
I'm looking for the correct color code (FS595 or Tamiya, MM, Humbrol, etc.) for the green that the M60A3's and M109A2's, M113's, M151A2's, etc. in Berlin (from the mid '80s) were painted. Bumper numbers and other marking info would also be appreciated.

Thanks,

Greg
18Bravo
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Posted: Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 10:36 AM UTC
Bumper codes were simple:
Left side as you face the vehicle, front and back started with "BBDE," followed by the unit, ie, "4/502; 5/502; 6/502; 40FA, etc...
Right side was the company or battery, followed by the vehicle number, ie, "CSC 13; HQ5, B9, etc...
The codes themselves consisted of plastic stick on letters with no different background color.

Shades of OD and green varied, due to availability. ALL dents were repaired, all scratches and rust spot painted with canned spray paint. On 151's and trucks, the undercarriages were painted gloss black. Except when coming back from the Gruenewald or Doughboy City, the vehicles often had a sheen from having been rubbed with baby oil or non corrosive brake fluid. In that case they often had the bumper codes hidden anyway - 151's would simply have sandbags wrapped around the bumpers.
M113's stored all duffels on top, in a very neat row, and were marked on the entire bottom with different colors for quick ID.

Otherwise, very little in the way of personal gear was stowed on any vehicle.
The most colorful of the vehicles were the M109's. On the left front of each turret was a coat of arms with the name of a West Berlin Bezirk, such as Steglitz, (which I did) Chartlottenburg, etc. You can find those coats of arms online and make decals for them. M109's also had red and yellow reflective tape on the corners to make them more visible.
PM me if you need anything else.

Taken in Berlin two days ago, in the Old MacNair Kaserne:

FlaminPole
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Posted: Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 02:20 PM UTC
Was the lack of cammo due to there really being little hope for units trapped in Berlin? That would not be my choice of a duty station during the cold war...
ghorine
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Posted: Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 03:29 PM UTC
Thanks for the reply and great info 18Bravo. I remember the M109's and their markings from the parades. I was stationed at Tempelhof (lived in BB housing) from 1984 to 1987. I, like many, wish I'd taken a lot more pictures while I was there.

Greg
ghorine
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Posted: Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 03:32 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Was the lack of cammo due to there really being little hope for units trapped in Berlin? That would not be my choice of a duty station during the cold war...



Steven,

The standing joke when I was stationed there was that in the event of hostilities we would be issued chemical warfare gear with prisoner numbers conveniently stencelled on the backs.

In truth, Berlin was a choice assignment, one of the best in the world. I rank it the number one tour in my 22 years of military service. I'd go back in a hearbeat.

Greg
Tankrider
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Posted: Friday, November 14, 2008 - 01:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Not like we had much of a choice where we went. When your're young, the last thing you're worried about is something as silly as a war breaking out. You just wanted to end up in the choice party spots. We would much rather be in Berlin, than some dump like Bamberg, or the hole I ended up in on my first assingment, Wildflecken.



Gary,
There was a reason that the Army, perhaps God, put you in Wildflicken... Perhaps it was to protect Germany from your antics at 19 years old... Will concur that Berlin was a great place, well, that is to visit... Being stationed/living there probably would have killed me in my younger day...

For the rest of you out there, F/40 Armor was the largest tank company in the Cold War US Army. If I remember right, F/40 had 28 (+) tanks and did transition from M60A3s to M1A1s before they deactivated...

John

John
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Posted: Friday, November 14, 2008 - 02:55 AM UTC
They tranisitioned to M1A1 right after my company did, late summer 1989. At that time, their HMMWVs were a solid green color (the base HMMWV color minus the NATO black and brown). Their 88s and 113s were the same color as well.
jimbrae
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Posted: Friday, November 14, 2008 - 03:37 AM UTC
I travelled a few times on the British Army train from Hamburg to Berlin. Now that was an experience all on its own... Mooning the Osties and waving wads of monopoly money at East German conscripts was only part of the fun...
ghorine
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Posted: Friday, November 14, 2008 - 07:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I travelled a few times on the British Army train from Hamburg to Berlin. Now that was an experience all on its own... Mooning the Osties and waving wads of monopoly money at East German conscripts was only part of the fun...



Did you ever do the US Army duty train? That was fun (not!). There's nothing like being shuttled on to a siding so an East German coal train can pass you. Rickety old troop train cars and slow East German engines made it a long night (the US didn't travel in the daylight like the Brits did.)

Greg
18Bravo
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Posted: Friday, November 14, 2008 - 01:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

That would not be my choice of a duty station during the cold war.



Not like we had much of a choice where we went. When your're young, the last thing you're worried about is something as silly as a war breaking out. You just wanted to end up in the choice party spots. We would much rather be in Berlin, than some dump like Bamberg, or the hole I ended up in on my first assingment, Wildflecken.



It all depends on what you did back then. Some of us volunteered and were accepted to be there, but not to party. Berlin was a very serious place for some of us. I was there when Major Nicholson was murdered. I was also there when LaBelle's was bombed and knew two of the people killed in the attack. It was far from a party spot. (Greg, you were there at the same time, I see)

However...

For the right group of guys, the duty train could be a highly rewarding experience. The barbecue grill in the baggage car, the trades with the Sovs, and a lot of other cool things most people never had exposure to.

As for the Chicken, some of us actually enjoyed brief forays to Wildflecken. It got ridiculously cold there, more so than Berlin. And when all you have is what's on your back, the suck factor is high, which of course we liked.
I still have two steins from the Kreuzburg monastary, not far from there. It was voted the world's best one of the years I was there.

I went back to Berlin in '03 on a three day pass from Afghanistan. It had obviously changed quite a bit, and in more recent trips, continues to do so. All of my old haunts are gone, save for the Irish Pub by the Gedaechniskirsche, which was always good for watching a fight break out. Now AlexPlatz is the place to be.
ghorine
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Posted: Friday, November 14, 2008 - 01:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

That would not be my choice of a duty station during the cold war.



Not like we had much of a choice where we went. When your're young, the last thing you're worried about is something as silly as a war breaking out. You just wanted to end up in the choice party spots. We would much rather be in Berlin, than some dump like Bamberg, or the hole I ended up in on my first assingment, Wildflecken.



It all depends on what you did back then. Some of us volunteered and were accepted to be there, but not to party. Berlin was a very serious place for some of us. I was there when Major Nicholson was murdered. I was also there when LaBelle's was bombed and knew two of the people killed in the attack. It was far from a party spot. (Greg, you were there at the same time, I see)

However...

For the right group of guys, the duty train could be a highly rewarding experience. The barbecue grill in the baggage car, the trades with the Sovs, and a lot of other cool things most people never had exposure to.

As for the Chicken, some of us actually enjoyed brief forays to Wildflecken. It got ridiculously cold there, more so than Berlin. And when all you have is what's on your back, the suck factor is high, which of course we liked.
I still have two steins from the Kreuzburg monastary, not far from there. It was voted the world's best one of the years I was there.

I went back to Berlin in '03 on a three day pass from Afghanistan. It had obviously changed quite a bit, and in more recent trips, continues to do so. All of my old haunts are gone, save for the Irish Pub by the Gedaechniskirsche, which was always good for watching a fight break out. Now AlexPlatz is the place to be.



Yep, I was there the same time you were. I got to Berlin the same time as Jesse Schatz, Major Nicholson's driver that fateful day. Jessie and his family and I my family spent about a month in the Dahlem Guest House when we first got there. He used to sit up all night (we had jet lag bad) studying his soviet vehicle identification cards while I shot the breeze with him. His mom was German so he spoke deutche like a native.
18Bravo
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Posted: Friday, November 14, 2008 - 01:48 PM UTC
Jesse had a time of it as well.
He had wanted to administer first aid and was not allowed to, at gunpoint. Then they ran him off the road a week later.
Not much of a party for him either.
jimbrae
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Posted: Friday, November 14, 2008 - 09:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Did you ever do the US Army duty train?



No, I never did (unfortunately). I only traveled on the British Army train as we had a 'perk' for free (or heavily subsidized) travel. even if you were a reservist, as I was. If you knew the right procedure (or more correctly the way of playing the system) you could get to visit lots of romantic places like Munchen Gladbach (no, not THAT Munich).

Berlin now, I was there on vacation a couple of years ago, is a lot cleaner and, it has to be said, a lot less 'colorful'. Doesn't have the smell of the 'yellow coal' from the East it's lost a lot of its unique character....
18Bravo
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Posted: Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 06:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Good for you, Robert. Some of us aren't so high speed, low drag.



No apologies necessary.

Greg, to get this back on track - one of my contacts in Berlin will be extremely helpful to you.
I'll PM his info to you when I dig it up. I may also have some old photos when I return home that I can put on digits.
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