Hi
Need some help, I'm building a 2 1/2ton Dodge with Rocket on the back for the Indirect Artillery Campaign & I want to mark this up as a specific vehicle/unit. But cant remember how to work out how the US mark there vehicles up.
I need to mark it up as a vehicle from the
193rd Field Battery
18th Field Artillery Battalion
How do I show this on the vehicle.
Until I sort this I cant finish the painting stages.

You can check out Lonesentry.com for some helpful information..

HTH
Frenchy

Hi Frenchy
Will check it out see if I can work out what I need.
Thanks

generally US Markings go in descending order from left to right. In your example it would be Battalion then battery, 18FA193FB. Hwoever< I haven't seen markings this limited (not saying it doesn't happen, just that I haven't seen it.) Perhaps you are missing some of the info?

I don't know about rocket batteries, but most artillery batteries in the US Army were designated by letters within the battalion (battalions having four or in some cases five batteries.) In that case the bumper code would read

battalion numberFA battery letter vehicle number

FA standing for Field Artillery, and the vehicle number being a one or two digit number of the vehicle within the unit. The battery letter could also be HQ, for headquarters battery. The first sequence, would be on the left side of the bumper, the battery sequence on the right. If there is a larger unit to which the battalion is assigned, that may (it doesn't always) appear to the left of the battalion code. This could be a Division or a Corps, or even an Army or Army Group.

Of course, your numbering could very well be correct. Is this a postwar setup like the Honest John? Some of those were tested down here at White Sands and Ft Bliss and I might be able to get you a little more info through the Ft Bliss Museum. Otherwise you might want to contact the museum at Ft Sill OK, the home of the Field Artillery.

John

The specifics you're looking for don't seem to make sense. I did find that the 18th Field Artillery Bn was equipped with 4.5 in Rocket Launchers as a test, however most sources indicate that the 18th FA Battalion was equipped with the towed 105 mm howitzer. As mentioned, it was not typical that Batteries within a Battalion were designated as numbered batteries. That's not to say that in a test unit it wasn't done but the usual practice would be for the Batteries to be designated as HQ, A, B, C, and SVC. Separate numbered batteries would be unusual for FA units.

It would be more typical for the higher level of command, such as a Field Artillery Brigade or Field Artillery Group to have such a numerical designation. The 18th FA Battalion was not part of a Division, and therefore would most likely been part of an FA Group. I haven't been able to determine whether it was part of the 193rd FA Group or not but that's certainly possible.

However while current marking practices would indicate the Group as well as the Bn designation in the bumper markings, according to the WW II practices indicated in the link, the lowest level above Battalion would have been either the Division to which the BN was assigned (not true for the 18th FA), and if not assigned to a Division, then either the Corps or the Field Army to which the parent unit (the Group) was assigned would be indicated.

Without knowing for certain to which Group the 18th Battalion was assigned, and what the higher formation that the Group was assigned to (Corps or Army) I don't know how to mark the vehicle.

Hi
Thanks for the replies.
These were used during the later part of 1944 during the battle at the Hurtgen Forest.
They were a field conversion using the T27 Rocket system. The projects code name was "Xylophone" . The only details I've managed to find come from 2 picture's showing them being used during the batttle.
1st Army ( forgot to mention in lastpost)
18th Field Artillery Battalion
193rd Field Battery.

That helps quite a bit. I still don't know about the 193rd Field Battery, as that is not a nomenclature which fits the usual designation for Field Artillery units.

That said, knowing that the 18th FA BN was part of 1st Army, then the way the vehicles SHOULD be marked (according to the regulations) would be as follows. As you look at the vehicle (either from the front or the rear) on the LEFT side as you are looking, you SHOULD see 1A-18F and on the right side, either an A, B, or C followed by a" -" and then a number. For example A-3. The vehicle number is supposed to be the vehicle's sequence in the column while in convoy, and without a photograph of the actual unit, there's no way for certain to know what number to choose since there is NO SOP which everyone used. The only number I can tell you NOT to use would be "1" since that would almost without question be the battery commander's jeep.

Field Artillery doctrine for movement during this period normally dictates that the BC's jeep is first, and then in most units, the Fire Direction Center vehicle (if there is one) is next. Then come the guns (or the prime movers towing the guns) and they are followed by the ammo, commo, supply, mess, and maint etc. This would have been a typical march order for WW II.

But one thing is for certain about US Army doctrine. It is NEVER followed to the letter by EVERYONE!! So consider it a "guide".

It is entirely possible that if the unit shown in the picture was some sort of numbered battery (and I have not been able to find any indications that there were any) that these vehicles could have been marked differently.

But without any documentary evidence to the contrary, no one should be able to say that a vehicle marked 1A-18F on one side and A-3 on the other is incorrect.

Looking forward to seeing the finished work.

The 18th FA was converted from 105mm Howitzers (towed) to 4.5 inch rockets (SP) in late (I've seen October) 1944. The entire battalion was converted, but I have not seen that designations within the battalion were changed (ie batteries being redesignated.) They fired in the Hurtgen Forest. There was a 193rd FA Group, but it was a 3rd Army outfit. My only explanation is that the 193rd "Field Battery" is a typo, or just a bad caption.

As to bumper codes, Tom Hathaway is quite correct, many units observed regulations in the breach. For example, my Father's unit, a 90mm battalion had a variety of bumper codes, I have seen photos with just the battalion, also with the Army Group (12th AG) first, and a few with the corps listed first. Just as an aside, they got round, being in 1st, 3rd and 9th Armies. I've also seen the branch listed as both AA and AAA, and one vehicle is AAA BN.

John

Oh, just to confuse you further, the 18th FA was a VIIth Corps outfit.

John

That's excactly what I was finally able to discover . A non-Divisional FA Battalion (which the 18th FA was) would usually have had an FA Group as it's immediate higher HQ, and the FA Group would have been assigned or allocated to a Corps HQ. The Corps in turn would have been assigned or allocated to an Army.

I haven't been able to find anywhere the specific FA Group to which the 18th FA Bn was assigned, and one source seems to indicate that it may NOT have been part of a group at all, but directly under the Corps HQ. And this link clearly indicates that the 18th was part of VII Corps.

http://www.unithistories.com/units/7th%20US%20Corps.htm

And VII Corps certainly was part of 1st Army.

Absent any photos to the contrary (and ignoring the 193rd Field Battery which appears to be some sort of error), based on what the regulations state, you should ignore the Corps and any possible FA Group affiliation and mark it per the regs.

Hi
Thanks for the info guy's. still a bit confused but if I do it as1A-18F then what ever company & vehicle I decide on the right side I should be ok.
As for the 193rd piece of info that's what is along the bottom of the photo but as you say this may be completly wrong.
Thanks for all the help.
Get this sorted over the weekend ready for the weathering & final finishing.

Correct. However, as a long time "redleg" (american army slang for artilleryman due to the red stripe on the trousers back in the 19th century based on the Artillery branch color), gotta say that us FA types never use the term company, but battery instead. It's just that we use letters for batteries and don't number them.