Hello everyone,
I'm new to this forum,although I have been visiting now and then.I racently got back to armor modeling after building mostly nascar for the past 15 or so years.Got a few builds on the go including an M4A3 Sherman(TAMIYA), an M1A2 Abrams(Dragon), and of course the kit I have the most questions for, a Shanghai/Dragon T-72M2.
It would be greatly apreciated if someone could list off the biggest shortcommings of thi kit and some of the remedies for these shortcommings.
- My first question is which wheels are correct,6 or 8 spokes?
- Is the kit actualy an M2 variant?
- Is the kit a Soviet T-72 or an export T-72?
- Would a T-72 as in this kit have served in the Soviet/Afghan war?
Any help and inspiration is greatly apreciated.Hope to have photos of my builds up within a few days with probably even more questions.
Looking foreward to this forums expert help,
Ron.

I asked the same question many months ago, it was not pretty. In a nutshell I was told it was not a great kit as regards any kind of accuracy.

A few T-72 compamies entered Afghanistan briefly in 1979 but were later removed in 1980 from Afghan service. The terrain proved too rough for the European theater designed T-72s. The suspension was the primary weakness. Crew comfort, fatigue, was gruelling and unbarable. The Russians wanted to fight this war with it's huge supply of superceded equipment such as the aging T-54/55 and T-62s. The BMDs were also too weak for Afghan service.

Cheers
John

wat

First, no T-72 were in Afghanistan, period. Then, this "findings" are pure BS, as in every point mentioned T-72 was an improvement over T-55 and T-62, which were in Afghanistan and performed there well. AFAIK, no units in 40th Army had operated T-72 before 1979 and there was no need to bring them there.

Then, about OP questions. Really, there aren't any T-72M2, T-72G, T-72BV or other obscure designations that have appeared in the first place in western literature in 80th and sometimes reappear here and there up to this day. So, the model can't be 100% linked to any existing variant, but judging on box art picture and final builds pics, it's most likely was meant to reproduce a T-72B1 from the first batch of production. If it's true, then this particular tank wasn't supposed to be exported (i.e. Soviet Army only) and roadwheels should have 6 spokes (late type, opposed to earlier with 8 spokes).
I haven't assembled the model myself (more into polygons and vertices rather than plastic and glue), but the complete builds pics show that it has some really wrong parts. Turret and roadwheels are wrong, to the point that I'm not even sure that anything can be done about it. Hull and other stuff aren't really convincing too, but I'm not sure (and I'm not really a T-72 guru). So, if you want to make a "giant Soviet tank crushing all comers" (C) Terminator Salvation director, and paint some BIG RED STARS on it and maybe a slogan in faux cyrillic, the model might do, but I don't think that you can make an accurate representation of a real vehicle from it.

The Dragon T-72B (T-72M2) will look good OOB, if you don't mind accuracy issues like: Compact hull, at least 3 mm too short, very simplified lower hull, oversized gun barrel, etc... You may use the 6-spoked wheels, but some time you can find some modernT-72 still with one or two 8-spoked wheels, I think I've seen some T-72 like those. Good luck. Best regards.

José.

Thanks for the info everyone.
I'm very happy to hear that the 6 spoke pattern is the correct one because I had started to work on three road wheels already.(glued halves together and hacked up the rubber tires)

Onto a few more questions now:
- Are the kit supplied tracks fairly accurate or should I spend the $$$ and go with AM tracks?
-Who makes a good aluminium barrel for the T-72?
Thanks again for all the help.Hope to have progress pics up a little later thisevening.
Ron.

The kit supplied tracks look OK when assembled, but I think they're a little thick (about 1 mm?), However, they won't fit the drive sprocket properly, maybe you should use A/M tracks and a replacement drive sprocket as well, the kit provided is awful (compare it to actual pictures and you'll see the difference). About the gun barrel, avoid the Barrel Depot offering, the Model Point barrel should be your barrel of choice. Hope this helps. Best regards.

José.

I don't think you should spend on AM on this kit. It looks like a T-72, but as mentioned, not very accurate. Just have fun building it. (That's what I do.) Or get the Tamiya kit and spend $$$ to make it accurate. Or do both (That's what I'll do.)

Ron,

Here is a photo of a T-72 from the rear in the Russian/Afghan War.
The photo was taken at the Bagram Airfield near Kandahar. I wish I had better photos like the ones we shreded back in 1985 at Ft. Devens. I remember this being a focal point of interest to the senior S2 anaysts. We were VERY interested in this T-72 design flaw as it was quickly removed from service there. There were very few used and I believe they arrived on An-22s and left the same way. I will try and find more photos. To answer your question though, They were most likely the very early T-72s with the skirts and 8 spoked wheels.

Photo http://www.ruswar.com/air.htm Photo is eight rows down.

Cheers
John

It could be T-72, but the photo is too blurry and the tank is too far away to see details. Then, at the same time Iraq did used their T-72 and T-72M in the war against Iran with no known problems due to overheating. India bought T-72M1 in 1987 and used them, among other places, in Rajastan, and then there were no known problems. (Heck, even USA bought their first T-72 from Iran somewhere around 1985)
Also


If you mean rubber skirts, then no such thing. Also, no way "very early T-72" could have appeared in Afghanistan in 1985, it could have been T-72A or pre-production Object 184, if somebody thought that conducting desert trials in Afghanistan is better than in Turkestan MD or somewhere else. (but then I haven't heard anything about it).

The best source I can think of now on this curious matter is Steven Zolaga. He would know for sure. He probably read the same intel and gazed the same black and whites I shreded so long ago. I am 100% posative that T-72s were briefly used and removed. I am sure of this.

Cheers
John

T-72M2 by DML is a mistaken name by NATO for the T-72S export version of the T-72B. DML also muddled the issue a bit by reusing some of the T-72 molds from earlier releases.

It builds into a OK kit, but I would not recomending buying a lot of aftermarket for it...better off scratchbuilding to improve your skills or your paint skills on a OOB kit. If you want accurate, start with the Tamiya T-72 instead. I know, no fun, but there it is.

Thanks for all the info guys.I apreciate this very much since I've been away from armor modeling for awhile.
Jacques;if I understand you correctly,you're saying that this kit is an export version and should not wear Soviet(Russian) markings???

BTW, I've decided to build this kit pretty much OOB except for an AM track set probably.I do intend,however,to do some scratchbuilding like the exterior wiring,maybe even attempt the grilles with mesh and such.But overall a OOB build.Will probably have more questions for you guys as I move along with this build and hope to have pics of it up soon.

Once again, thanks a bunch for the info and once I get those pics up I hope you guys will LMK the absolute no no's about Russian T-72's because I plan to build the Tamiya kit later and will more than likely build it more accurately with extensive AM parts.
Ron.

Gary when I asked about this kit the problem was I was looking under the wrong manufacturer I believe, could you re-enter the info for Ron's ref please.

Getting a proper name for ANY of the DML T-72's is a...difficult...thing. In reality, the DML kits, manufactured from drawings made from satellite photo's and a few declassified images in the late 1980's, are pretty much Frankenstien mix-n-matches.

Don't take this too hard though, they are not a total waste of plastic like the AMT T-72 kits. They are just kits made during an entirely different era. The explosion of information out of Eastern Europe is astounding and has given us a VERY bright light to shine on these kits...otherwise they would still be "pretty accurate" and the stapel of modelling Soviet armor.

The kit best matches the designator of T-72S. Also, the Russian Army DID absorb some when a export deal fell apart...supposedly with Iran. So marking them for Russian Army use is still possible.

I also agree with Gary...new tracks on this kit are a waste UNLESS you are using it for learning purposes, like your first set of Fruils or something. You would do much better to skip the cost and buy the Tamiya kit, so you can upgrade that, and just build the DML kit OOB with scratchbuilding. It is a sad truth I have had to accept as well, with my large stash of DML kits.

Thanks guys.
I think I like the direction you're pointing me in.I like the idea of using the $$$ I would have used for tracks to aquire a Tam T-72 and then going nuts on that since it's more accurate.
I should have the WIP thread started later today with pics and I hope all you Soviet armor gurus will chime in with comments and tips.
Thanks again,
Ron.

A couple of questions here for you Soviet armor pros.The two sections shown in black which are simple molded tabs,Should these be removed or do they serve a purpose like locating tabs for something?I'm thinking I need to remove these but please let me know...


Also,should the area around the trunion cover be filled in or not?I couldn't find good reference pics of this area so any help would be greatly apreciated:


Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me.
Ron.

Here are a couple of pics that will help you a lot:



And...



Although not the same version, more pics here:

http://btvt.narod.ru/5/5.html

Hope this helps. Best regards.

José.

Wow!!!
Thanks for these pics Jose.Awesome link as well.Too bad my Russian is so rusty(LOL).In those two pics above,it seems as though the cover is painted with the same color the beast is.Am I correct?
Ron.

Does anyone know how many bolts there actualy is around the commander's coupola ring?

A little dificult to say, but in this walkthrough:

http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/jim_caddo/t-72m1_walk_1.htm

You can find several cupola pics, in different angles, so you can count the bolt heads by yourself. I think there are 16+ and they're not simmetrically spaced. Hope this helps. Best regards.

José.