I recently picked up a copy of the new Tamiya cataloge and inside was a beautiful diorama of Pershings being reloaded. One thing really caught my eye and ire. There were live rounds sitting all over the backs of these tanks. I have see this time and time again on Tanks from all eras. The fact is that no tanker worth a darn is going to leave live ammo on the deck, not lying down and especially not standing on its base. I know it looks sexy - but its wrong! This also goes for leaving strewing others weapons all about a vehicle - it may look cool but its not right.

I will now remove myself from this soapbox and post this note.

hmmm must say i agree,live rounds in lethal places,stowage that sticks without strapping,these are a few of my least favorite things.Where do you strike a balance between artistically pleasing and realistic representation?This could go on for a while

All that is required for putting on stowage is common sense! All you have to think is "Would I put this thing here" and "How hard is it going to be to get these things!" I see models all the time that have kit is places where it would take an hour to get at nessasary items. (++)

I never served in arty, but having been present on live shoots, I can remember, the safety discipline that was always enforced. And I mean always, this is one very interesting post...Jim

I served as a tanker in both the regular army and the army national guard. The only time that I ever observed live ammo laying around was in Germany during 1968. Our company was preparing for an IG inspection and we were order to off load the tanks and clean the ammo. At this time all tanks were fully war loaded and ready to go. We had our rounds stacked outside of the tank on a tarp. I remember this well because I was a new tanker and had been told to clean the rounds. In my effort to be outstanding I had a steel wool pad and was very busy polishing the end of each round. No one would even come around me, a nice cold German winter day! At all other times rounds were handeled with utmost care and were never laid down. Hand carried and stored in the tank as needed. I don't think our training would have allowed us to be as lax as some of the dioramas I have seen.

In Germany, we kept the tanks fully uploaded with service ammo in the motor pool. Whenever a tank platoon went into service in the bays or had some major type of maintenance being done, we had to download the ammo. Of course, after the tanks were repaired, we had to upload them once again.

I recall one industrious set of soldiers pushing a grocery cart (liberated from the commissary) loaded with service ammo. Looks like the soldiers had just been shopping at Sabots Я Us. Must have had about 6 or 7 rounds in the cart and the frame was bending. More than a few of us immediately chastised the soldiers.

Then there's the story when one of my tanks knocked a HEAT round off the fender and it fell and bent the post of the round when it hit the concrete. One of my tank commanders and I jumped behind a pile of 105mm ammo crates when we saw that thing fall. Of course, the ammo crates were full of service ammo and an M978 was fueling the tanks only a few feet away. Luckily, it didn't go off.

Is it true ammo is always handled pointing nose down and if so why?

While I would never step on the toes of the Army guys here (I'm but a squid, btw), I have to throw in a reference pic that, although still a stupid practice, shows live ammo piled on the back of a tank.

I am referring to Squadron's Sherman in Action, pg 12 bottom. I have also seen the same pic (with a bit of chastising by the author) somewhere else. Anyway, the tank is an M4 named "Ink Spots" of the 3rd Armored in Nov '44. The caption says the tank is being used as mobile artillery from a prepared position. That might explain the easing of safety regarding the ammo.

Because US/NATO tank rounds are fired electrically, not by the physical striking of the primer by the firing pin. All it takes to set off a round is about 1.5v of electricity. Hence the reference to stupidity of one of the above stories about scrubbing the round with a pad. Nice way to create just enough static electricity to kill yourself.

If you happen to drop the round nose first, it will not go off (see my previous story, that was a 6' fall on to a concrete surface with an explosive round). But if you drop it base first, there just might be enough static electricity created to set the round off.

They did in Vietnam, and even into modern times with the 90mm rounds used by the M48 and 105mm rounds used by the M60. Our current 120mm ammo has a combustible casing that is less durable than a metal one. Remember, just because our Army can defeat any opponent on the field of battle, don't think that means we don't have our share of knuckleheads.

SABOT,
I think the spirit of this thread was that the sight of a Pershing with ammo piled up on the deck was "unrealistic". I was just jumping in with an example of it being done "for real".
Not having ever been in the field, I would never say this was normal, smart, etc.

That being said, I am glad we have this site. Having experienced professionals around who actually work with the 1:1 scale stuff helps everyone get that extra detail on their models.

Yea but where else would you get such wonderful stories. I had my hand crushed on more than one occasion handling ammo. and we always placed our hand over the rear because of static. we used a special tarp to ground the area when we off loaded and placed the puppies during maintenance. Back then we also carried 7 WP's and boy were those scary.

If you read my post carefully, you'd see I was agreeing with you. Plenty of Vietnam, Korea and WW2 photos to show that live tank ammo was piled up. I agree that the way that some modelers display the ammo just lying about is unrealistic. I agree that it was done in the past, heck, I saw trained tankers pile tank rounds in grocery carts with my own two eyes (circa 1988-89) and they should have known better.