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Яusso-Soviэt Forum: WWII Soviet Armor
For discussions related to WW2 era Soviet armor.
Italeri - T-34/76 M 1943 (kit # 282)
Plasticbattle
#003
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Donegal, Ireland
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 06:43 AM UTC
Ive built an awful lot of German armor recently but have been bitten a little with the T34 bug. I have a few more modern Dragon T34s, but have this, plus Part etch, Maquette engine and friul tracks, and want to build this first.
Is there any major Boo-Boos in this kit, or are they any simple improvements that can be made, that would lift this kit up a bit? Eventhough I have a few T34 kits at home, Ive never actually built one.
Any tips or help would be appreciated very much! Cheers.
Kiyatkin
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Maryland, United States
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 06:52 AM UTC
Frank the Italeri kit is the same as the Zvedza kit. It is pretty rough, but the dimensions are accurate. It would require A LOT of work to make really nice. Your choice, but I would start either with the Dragon's 85mm T-34 or the early 1940/41 type. All you really need then are a set of tracks and even then the kit tracks are quite usable.
Dmitry
Plasticbattle
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 07:32 AM UTC
Hi Dmitry.
Thanks for your reply. I have a Dragon T-34/76 M41 with Trax interior, and also the premium edition of the T34/85 with bedspring armor, and will build these one day.

Im not afraid of the work, and have built plenty of rough kits before ..... You could say I like the challenge. I just want to know if there are any major bloopers in this kit, as I know very little about specific T34 details. I would say Im determined ... other might just say stubborn .

To be honest, my main concern is not the 100% accuracy or detail quality .... I want to experiment with this a little ... and add it into a small base!

8)
marcb
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Overijssel, Netherlands
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 08:13 AM UTC
One of the faults in the Italeri/ Zveda kit is that the base for the gunner's sight is too close to the hatch hinge, and it should be screwed, not welded.

Here are some usefull walkarounds:
http://pblinov.narod.ru/photo.htm

Plasticbattle
#003
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Posted: Monday, December 15, 2008 - 02:20 AM UTC
Thanks Mark for both the tip and the links. Very much appreciated.

I found two threads on Missing Links that offer some tips
ML 1
ML 2

I have 2 Part etched sets. Set P35008 for the "T34/76 M 1943", and the later set P35087 for a "T34/76". I think IŽll use the tracks as supplied in the T34/85 premium kit, and keep the Friuls for that ... not definate yet! The Maquette engine/transmission is quite basic, but it will be mostly enclosed, so with a little attention, it should be adequate.
I ordered two Armorscale items today ...



Now I need to source some rubber-rimmed roadwheels!
dsfraser
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 01, 2007
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Posted: Monday, December 15, 2008 - 01:06 PM UTC
The Zvezda-Italeri T-34 is much more accurate than the Tamiya kit, although without the crisp detail. It is not comparable to the DML kits, which have their own qurks, but are much better than the earlier kits from either manufacturer.

I would suggest leaving the Zvezda kit in the box, and just using it for parts. The turret is actuapretty good, and with the Armorscale mantlet and some minor detail improvements will yield a very nice 'hardedge' turret for use on any of the later DML kits. The driver's hatch can be used to upgrade the DML STZ '41 kit (#6355) to a more common variant with the revised hatch introduced in the autumn of 1941.

The Zvezda kit has a number of shortcomings that would reinforce this opinion. To build it, the tracks and roadwheels need to be replaced. The tracks are junk. The roadwheels, like those in the Tamiya kit, are far too wide. Moreover, apart from tanks built at STZ in 1942 (which used a different style of roadwheel) T-34s with a complete set of Ural-style all-metal roadwheels are exceedingly rare, if they existed at all (there is no conclusive photographic evidence). Tanks were delivered with rubber-tired wheels on the first and last stations, and as availability improved, the third station was also so equipped, and them the all-metal roadwheels were dispensed with, replaced with cast rubber-tired "half-spider" wheels. Some factories, notably Krasnoe Sormovo and some tanks from Zavod No.174 in Omsk used the stamped "dish" wheels now available (sorta) in the most recent DML Zavod No.112 ("late Krasnoe Sormovo") kit, (The later stamped wheels lacked the central retaining ring found on earlier wheels, as included in the majority of DML '41 kits).

Moving along, if you are intent on building the Zvezda kit, suitable "half-spider" roadwheels are available frm a number of manufacturers, including Azimut, Armo, Tank Workshop, CMD, and in DML's T-34-85 kit #6203 or #6266. You can find good photos of the DML parts on the PMMS website. For tracks, the Magic Tacks from any DML T-34-85 kit can be used, or MasterClub, ModelKaten, and Fruil all offer replacements. Useable photoetch sets can be found in the catalogues of Aber, LionRoar, Voyager, and probably also Eduard and PART. I have the first three, and any of them will do the job. Fenders are available separately.

But I have to ask, why? By the time you replace the tracks and roadwheels, you're looking at investing at least $60 in a $20 kit, plus another $15 for photoetch. Were you to start from DML's #6266, the tracks and roadwheels are in the kit, as well as a much crisper hull, and the hex turret is a comfortable fit. There are a few differences that have to be addressed, namely the rounded front fenders and rounded front beam on the hull, but these are relatively easy to fix. You end up with a better model for less work and a lower cost.

Finally, I have to point out that in the last half of 1943 there were as many as five factories building hex-turret T-34s. Each factory introduced their own unique modifications, and these serve to distinguish one from the other. These range from things as obvious to the style of roadwheels to the style of hinges on the rear plate and even the number of rivets there. Regrettably, these differences are pretty much undocumented in English. If you're interested, I can point you at a number of Russian websites where these are discussed, but your best bet, as always, is to work from photos.

Find a tank you want to build, Post the image, or give a reference to a published source, and we can probably identify the originating factory and then list differences fom whatever stock kit you choose to start from. I have most of what has been published on the T-34, and a many photos to refer to. I also know more than a couple of T-34 gurus to call upon for help.

Cheers
Scott Fraser
Canada
Plasticbattle
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Posted: Monday, December 15, 2008 - 10:35 PM UTC
Hi Scott.
Thanks for your excellent reply.

This is not costing me anything (now) ... only the armorscale barrel and extra fuel cells, I ordered yesterday. I have this kit for quite a while and have the tracks and etch already bought for it, and as can be expected, the planning for this kit was long before the new batch of Dragon kits were available. A guy here in Sweden is sending me some Tamiya rubber-rimmed wheels, now as well. So depending on how many I get, it will be R-S-S-S-R or R-S-R-S-R on each side. I also want to do some cutting to open up the back hatch and maybe the upper back hull hatch to show the Maquette engine. This will also need some work to get to an acceptable level.

Im well aware that this old kit cannot match the detail and finesse of the latest kits, but having read the reviews of many of these latest, Im not sure that any of them are that perfect straight from the box either. My idea is make the most of it ... have some fun ... experiment a little ... and hopefully learn something about the T34 on the way. When I get the outstanding parts, I will continue this thread with a build blog. Hopefully you can hop in when you have some tips or advice. Thanks again.
dsfraser
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Monday, December 15, 2008 - 11:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Scott.
Thanks for your excellent reply.



You're quite welcome.


Quoted Text

This is not costing me anything (now) ... only the armorscale barrel and extra fuel cells, I ordered yesterday. I have this kit for quite a while and have the tracks and etch already bought for it, and as can be expected, the planning for this kit was long before the new batch of Dragon kits were available. A guy here in Sweden is sending me some Tamiya rubber-rimmed wheels, now as well. So depending on how many I get, it will be R-S-S-S-R or R-S-R-S-R on each side. I also want to do some cutting to open up the back hatch and maybe the upper back hull hatch to show the Maquette engine. This will also need some work to get to an acceptable level.



The R-S-R-S-R combination is rare. They ditched the all-metal roadwheels as soon as supplies allowed, and older tanks were retrofitted as quickly as practical.


Quoted Text


Im well aware that this old kit cannot match the detail and finesse of the latest kits, but having read the reviews of many of these latest, Im not sure that any of them are that perfect straight from the box either.



THAT comment is an invitation to all manner of grumbling. DML's T-34s are generally much better than anything previous, but their instance on "one part fits all" has resulted in many minor version-specific errors that drive the "purists" nuts. That includes me . . . Still, they remain the best starting point from existing kits.


Quoted Text


My idea is make the most of it ... have some fun ... experiment a little ... and hopefully learn something about the T34 on the way. When I get the outstanding parts, I will continue this thread with a build blog. Hopefully you can hop in when you have some tips or advice. Thanks again.



Well, I still think that given the investment of time and parts required to improve the Zvezda kit to DML standards, whatever they may be, it's best to leave the Zvezda kit in the box apart from useable pieces, Same holds for the Maquette and Tamiya kits. All have their strengths and weaknesses, but on balance all are lesser kits than the DML offerings.

I will send you a link to my website, My server crashed a while back and the site is still in need of fixing, with many broken links, but there's still some good info there. Feel free to ask questions. I do know a bit about these beasts.

Cheers
Scott Fraser
Plasticbattle
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Posted: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 12:20 AM UTC
Thanks Scott.
Mail replied to.
05Sultan
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California, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 01:42 AM UTC
Cheers Frank! Even though I'm partial to Italeri kits (for some reason ), I can't dispute anything Scott or the others have said. The older kits just need more 'work' for the exacting builder. One advantage in all this endeavor is I find the formula of styrene Italeri uses is more favorable to 'working' than DML's. Tamiya's is OK also. Past reviews of your T-34 were generally favorable for it's day-nice stance,clean lines/curves,and had the right 'look' for the beast.
In the end,it's up to you how much you want to put into it and when you will call it 'finished'. Just like my motto below.
I have great faith in your skills and look forward to this forthcoming showstopper!
Cheers for craft enjoyment and satisfaction!
Rick
timroberts8
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England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 10:15 AM UTC
dear scott
can you re-send me a link for you excellent website.
thanks
tim
dsfraser
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, December 18, 2008 - 10:01 PM UTC
Sure Tim

http://T-34.hobby-site.com

Regrets, my server died a couple of months ago, when I was away. I've rebult my server, but the site has many broken links. Rebuilding the site is a project for the New Year.

Cheers
Scott Fraser
Plasticbattle
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Posted: Saturday, December 20, 2008 - 08:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text

it's up to you how much you want to put into it and when you will call it 'finished'.
I have great faith in your skills and look forward to this forthcoming showstopper


Thanks Rick. IŽve never built a T34 before, but thanks to some great help from Scott, I already know 200% more about this tank, than I did a few weeks ago. With the few bits and pieces I have, and the few on the way, this should be OK. A show stopper?? Time will tell
But thanks for the very kind comments.
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