hello all, im just planning my first diorama and would like some suggestions, reference links and ideas if possible.

Its going to be a german ww2 scene.

the models that will be in the scene that i have already are:

kubelwagen type82 with engine maintence set and mechanic.
panther med tank with maintenance crew, tank crew at rest and ammo loading crew.
marder 3 with maintenance crew
field kitchen set
loads of jerry cans, barrels, crates, tools etc

now im aiming for some sort of "in the field" repair, re fueling, re loading diorama. Can any one give me any guidence as to what scene they might be in i dont want to go to complicated at this stage i.e no snow etc. just your ordinary grass and mud, and i was going to go for the dunkelgelb on the vehicles.
would they just be in a wooded clearing doing this type of work are there any troops that may also be present or any other models it may be worth inserting (tents buildings) would all of the above even be together? any ideas or comments will help but that was my basic plan.

chris

Chris, I did a reviews of History & Collections book "III panzer corps at Kursk". Their are 3 or 4 pictures in that review that might give you a bit of help.
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/review/3188
Joe

Hello Chris,
Sounds like an ambitious project for a first diorama.
I would suggest that you drop either the Panther or the Marder. Stick with the Kubel and chose one of the other two. Also, if this is a maintenance/ammo replenishing scene, I would also drop the field kitchen as it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the theme.
One of the biggest problems with 1st dioramas is putting too many items on it. It can really detract from any 'theme' . The more vehicles in the dio, the more 'diluted' the storyline can get.

I hope you take these suggestions as constructive as I have built a few dioramas and really believe that you should start with a reasonable sized diorama and work up toward that huge, multi-vehicle dio with numerous story lines.
Cheers,
Charles

thats just the sort of advice i am after thanks! i just thought with the men might be getting fed while they are working/relaxing thats what the kitchen was for, i think ill just save that for a figure diorama at a later date.

i may just stick with the kubelwagen and the panther in the scene and save the marder for my next one. or make separate ones.

do you know what type of setting/enviroment this may be happening in and what else could possibly be around, for example the maintenance/ammo crews wont have come from no where? the tank crew would obviously be riding in the armour, and what set of figures may have been riding in the kubelwagen?

i will check the link out now, thanks guys keep it coming

chris

you could put the scene in a small clearing just off a dirt road. I don't think you need any people from the Kubelwagen as they could be 'off scene' waiting for their vehicle. Also, the fact that you have people loading the ammo suggests that there is some sort of supply vehicle (again, off scene)

For items sitting around, maybe some fuel drums, ammo crates, have someone stripping and cleaning the MG34 from the Panther (sitting at a makeshift bench? a couple fuel drums with some boards to make a table for the MG parts?)

I think Masterbox makes a tank crew performing maintenance such as cleaning the barrel etc. that might be a good "working" crew for the Panther while the commander checks a map out?

There are a million scenarios you can create on this general theme. Can't wait to see what you come up with!
Cheers,
Charles

thanks alot thats the sort of direction i was after, i think because there is a million options its hard to decide and i wanted it to be as acurate as possible and im new to ww2 armour which makes it increasing hard, till i grasp what did and did not happen in the field. Thats why i thought there maybe the kitchen to feed the troops, kind of like a base.

well i am deffinately going to put them in a clearing in trees, would there be a fence maybe barbed wire round the edge of the trees? dirt road sounds good too, something to put track marks in!!

Hello Chris
I would agree with the others. I would drop 1 of the vehicles & tents.
As for figure's I'd go with the miniart refueling/cleaning figure's & a couple of tank crew Before you finally glue every thing in place move them around a bit until you like the layout, it's easier than gluing it all down & then having to rip it all up as it dont look right.
Anymore for a 1st diorama would probably be a bit ambitious.
I will say that once bitten by the diorama bug then there's no turning back. I love diorama's as they can add so much more to your model Eg: a touch of life which just a vehicle on it's own seems to lack.( ducking under the flak for that comment ).
Main thing have fun.

I think you have the makings for 2 diorama's here, or even 3. I agree that using everything you have in only one is over-ambitious, even at a more advanced level.

I would use perhaps the Kubel and the Marder together in a maintenance scene - either in a wrecked building or courtyard perhaps or perhaps in a field (simple). These are smallish kits that would work well together, and I always tend to favor open-topped vehicles like these for diorama's anyway. You get the same point across about what is happening without having to use your entire stash in one project and you keep the size of that project much more managable and focused.

The Panther could be used with the Reloading crew and perhaps some of the TankersAt Rest figures would be a second diorama in and of itself. This could be urban or rural to your taste.

The Field Kitchen could be a 3rd diorama. If its the one without the horse team (#35247 German Field Kitchen Scenery) then I think I might even have a whole plan for you. That kit can make a fine vignette all by itself - there's a great photo of such a setup on the box - but you could make a full-fledged diorama by adding say the Tamiya kit "German Soldiers at Rest" with something like say the Miniart diorama base #36017 http://www.miniart-models.com/36017.htm and perhaps the Tamiya Farm Animals set (which can be had in pre-painted or unpainted forms) and you've got everything you need except the paint. If I were you I would even be tempted to do this setup first.

If you have the older version of the Tamiya field kitchen where it is being drawn by the horse team a humorous diorama idea might be to have the field kitchen passing the Kubel or Marder broken down by the side of the road - the triumph of horse-technology over machine!

Chris, resupply of fuel & ammo could have taken place in several ways. In the open if their was minimal chance of destruction by enemy airpower or artillery. Under cover if their was enemy airpower or artillery. Supplies could be delivered by truck or left in predetermined spots. Predetermined spots could be because of a lack of transport. Food could be brought forward and distributed by kubelwagen, motorcycle, or other means.
No use taking a tank or other offensive vehicle back for food when the food could be brought forward.
Another thing to think about is how much does a barrel of gas weigh and how many does it take to fill up your vehicle. How much does a case of ammo weigh and how many cases do you need. Don't overload your truck to badly you may need it again for another resupply.
In most cases I've seen pictures of the truck has a mixed load of gas and ammo. Gas is usually hand pumped to fill the recieving vehicle. Other pictures show gas being transfered via jerry cans.
Their are so many variables you could spend alot of time on thinking it out. Their are empty jerry cans and barrels around along with empty ammo crates. If I can be of help in the future let me know
Joe

thanks guys thats very helpful and some great ideas! i like the idea of the horse over machine, perhaps add some german officers stood with the wagen looking a bit annoyed at being held up as the horse rolls by! unfortunately i have the kitchen without the horses but its only a click away!!

thanks for the info on how re loading and re fueling would take place thats what i was punting at, i have an idea of a clearing in some trees for that, what sort of vehicle would of brought the supplies forward? or what sort of transport would maintence/supply crews have?

chris

The great think about modelling German WW2, they used all types of transport. From Horse's to trucks,and all sorts in between. Including captured vehicals. For a first dio keep it simple and really enjoy it. Dont go for to many things and make it hard. Make it simple, learn and improve. Then start thinking about mega storie lines. Enjoy!

Resupply units would use any vehicle transport they could find. I've seen pictures of Opel 3 ton trucks, Maultier 3 ton, RSO, SWS and a variety of French trucks for hauling supplies.
Check around and select a truck or maultier would be my preference. Most of the pictures I've seen are opel type trucks resupplying, they have more speed than the tracked vehicles.
You might want to shop around and see what's out there for supply trucks.
Joe

As mentioned, just about any form of transport used by the German's will do and there are a number of kits available from Tamiya, Italeri and AFV Club in particular that would do the job, but I don't know that it would really be necessary. Like I mentioned above, if this were me I would do 2 diorama's - one with the Kubelwagon and the Marder in a dirty, primitive, austere forward maintenance depot and another of the Panther getting topped off with gas and ammo just behind the front line, maybe on a roadside. For the depot the supplies could just be stacked up all about already, so no need for a supply vehicle of any kind. That keeps the diorama smaller and more managable. The Marder in one corner, the Kubelwagon in the other each getting tweaked by frustrated crewmen and dirty mechanics amongst stacks of hastily assembled oil drums, crates, tools and whatnot . I like the idea of 2 vehicles being worked on because it puts home the idea this is actually a formal maintenance area, not just one unlucky bastard broken down by the side of the road. One must-have kit for the maintenance depot is the Italeri Field Workshop accessory set. Its cheap and has all kinds of hand tools, air tanks, welding equipment and such to deck out the details.

The Panther I would use for a resupply diorama with the tank reload crew. The Panther is a big, imposing vehicle that works well as the centerpiece of a diorama so I think it is more appropriate to use it here. But a resupply vehicle of some kind would make a great addition as it seems logical the crew would be hastily loading up the tank right off the truck and then rushing right back into the actoin. An AFV Club Sdkfz 11 or Italeri Steyr RSO would feel particularly appropriate supporting tanks near the front lines but any of the other available truck or cargo half-track kits would work. I like the RSO though as it would be somewhat dwarfed by the Panther, drawing more attention to the tank.

Just something to chew on.

I have a natural tendency - and I am certain I am not alone in this - of starting out with large, grandiose diorama plans. Sometimes they grow more during the initial planning stage until I end up with some giant monster that little resembles the tiny gem of an idea I started with. More often than not tough I discover that smaller is better. It is all too easy to overdo it, to become so overwhelmed with a project it never gets finished or to have an unsatisfying result because simply too much was attempted. The 2nd stage of my diorama planning process then often involves the question "OK, now what can I take out?"

For example, one of my current working plans, for which much procurement but no building has yet started is for a German forward maintenance and supply area, not unlike what you are planning. The initial design called for 1 vehicle in particular as the centerpiece - an Academy Tiger 1 with interior - but quickly and before I realized it grew to as many as 6 vehicles of various types, and several buildiings. Each vehicle was going to get all the latest and greated AM details added and dozens of resin and plastic figures would all be doing various things. Not only was this going to be uber-expensive and so huge I would never have room to store or display it, but it would take so long to build I would probably never finish. I have over time paired it down to the Tiger I, Italeri Bergetiger (yanking the engine from the Tiger I) and aTamiya Kubel with Maintenance set (to fill dead space - it may come out of the end product). A few plastic figure sets to establish what is happening and a modest amount of AM and I have accomplished telling the same story on a much more managable scale. It is still gonna be big, but not obscene, and it will make my wife happier - a consideration whose importance should never be overlooked.

On a practical level, the smaller and simpler the diorama, the more of them I can build. Since I have far more kits and ideas than I have time to build them this philosophy works out pretty well.

But hey, enough about me. Its your plan, do what works best for you and have fun!