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Яusso-Soviэt Forum: WWII Soviet Armor
For discussions related to WW2 era Soviet armor.
Kharkov armor question
pzkfwmk6
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Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Monday, January 05, 2009 - 01:56 PM UTC
Okay guys, I'm trying to find out which russian armored divisions took part in the battles for Kharkov. After going through most of my ref material I found all my german info but little on the russkies. Were there any T-34/76 with the large single hatch for the turret in any of the battles? Also, any pics or links to the divisional insignias on the armor would be great as well.

Thanks ahead of time for the help!

Regards, Ed
Gill-oh-no
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Posted: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 - 08:05 AM UTC
Which battle of Kharkov?
There were one in 1941 (German capture), one in May 1942 (the Russian summer offensive), one in winter 1943 (the Soviets retaking it before losing it once more to the Waffen SS) and the last when the Soviets recaptured the town.
pzkfwmk6
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Posted: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 - 09:13 AM UTC
Hi Claude, forgot to mention, the winter 43 battle. Too many things running through my mind at one time!
Thanks and regards, Ed
BigfootV
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Posted: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 - 03:38 PM UTC
Ed,

I very rarely visit this area, but I did find a website that may interest you.
www.battlefield.ru-This site is a gold mine for WWII Russian info. It's has afterbattle reports from '41-'45, reports from the Kharkov battles, all of them!! Destroyed German and Russian AFV photo's, Blueprints for building in 1/35. Etc., Etc., Etc.

This site is a must for research!!!
Finch
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Posted: Saturday, January 10, 2009 - 10:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm trying to find out which russian armored divisions took part in the battles for Kharkov.



The Red Army didn't have armored divisions in WW2 after about Oct 1941. The closest equivalent would be their Tank Corps and Mechanized Corps. Each formation was roughly the size and strength of a western (US/UK/German) armored division. Tank Corps were a bit tank-heavy and Mech Corps were Infantry-heavy, similar to Panzergrenadier divisions.

At the third battle of Kharkov the Soviet forces included Rybalko's 3rd Tank Army with:

12th Tank Corps
15th Tank Corps
179th Tank Brigade
39th Armored Car Battalion

Plus several rifle divisions, artillery regiments etc.

Other combined-arms armies would have had independent tank regiments attached for support of their Rifle Divisions.

Hope this is helpful.

Danny Egan
President
AMPS
http://www.amps-armor.org
pzkfwmk6
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Posted: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 07:00 PM UTC
Thanks much Danny, any chance you'd have any marking reference for those units? I checked battlefield.ru and came up empty. Also checked with some of the guys at axis history.....no joy.
Regards, Ed
bother37
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Posted: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 02:25 AM UTC
I just looked through some of my photo references, and most of the Soviet tanks have no markings, or simple turret numbers. There were alot of Lend-lease stuff there, like Valentines and Matildas, as well as home grown KVs, T-34s, and BT-7s. The t-34 with the large hatch would be appropraite if it was a 1942 version, such as the new Krasnoe-Sormovo T-34s from DML. I doubt there were any surviving T-34 Model 1941s by March of 43.
pzkfwmk6
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Posted: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 04:58 AM UTC
Thnks a lot Bob, that will make the marking thing easier, and more believeable. I appreciate all the help enveryone has given me.
Regards, Ed
Finch
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New York, United States
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Posted: Friday, January 16, 2009 - 04:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text

here were alot of Lend-lease stuff there, like Valentines and Matildas, as well as home grown KVs, T-34s, and BT-7s. The t-34 with the large hatch would be appropraite if it was a 1942 version, such as the new Krasnoe-Sormovo T-34s from DML. I doubt there were any surviving T-34 Model 1941s by March of 43.



Don't forget M3A1 Stuarts. There's a nice photo of one in Zaloga's old classic book from 1984 on Soviet WW2 armor.

Although it seems logical that any T-34 model 41s would be rare in 1943, in fact a photo recently surfaced of a Model 41 in Czechoslovakia in May of 1945. So you never know.

If we're still talking about the winter/spring 1943 battles, a hex-turret T-34 would be the most common Soviet tank.
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