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Armor/AFV: Vietnam
All things Vietnam
Hosted by Darren Baker
Vietnam artillery help
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 11, 2010 - 07:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I'm not a Browning anything fan in case it matters
gary



Hmmm... SF going back to the Kimber 1911. Everyone in the free world using the fi'ty. Several nations still using the .30. And many armies I've worked with still using the Browning Hi-power as well. I'd say he had his $#!+ wired pretty tight.
You're not a fan of the Tech-9 by any chance...?



problem with the Browning fifty was many fold. It was immobile, so you had a good chance of being caught with your pants down while reloading or other things worse. They don't hide very well, and when they don't perform they become a death trap just like a DSHK. And yes they do have headspace issues as many a shooter will profess. Many think it's not in the barrel changing but with gun wear in the reciever. I prefered to stay away from them. The M2 has lots of range, but 60% of it is usually unusable. Most everything we think an M2 is fantastic for a good can round will do in spades. With 85% of all KIA under 50 yards and 90% under 100 yards you often wonder what for? An M60 is plenty good to 500 yards, and dead is dead! But worse yet an M2 on a tripod is is like being glued to one spot. An M60 will flank him and kill the shooter . Mounted on a tank they're just fine, but how many have you ever seen being humped?

SF teams liked to use the old Browning 30 because of the ammunition and a slightly longer range (some folks taughted their accuracey, but at 150 yards who cares). The issues with Browning became apparent in WWII, and many cheap fixes were tried. That's why we tried to copy the MG42 concept (Oh Yes mobility was one of the prime issues!). The MG42 had the advantage of being a very nice off hand weapon. (ever try to shoot a Browning anything off hand?)

If you love Brownings, then so be it! I like them in museums. Lots of other folks use fifty cal this and that. But most all are track mounted in one form or another. Perhaps a solid comparison between a DSHK and an M2 would be interesting, and I know which one wins.

John Browning did design the 1911 as well as the 1898 (think that's the number). But Colt built the first contract lots till Ithica took over. I've had a couple thru the years an liked them, and like most folks; I think it was his last great design. The Hi-Power is a double action stacked magazine pistol, and that's the two flaws that also kill it (let alone the 9mm round). He did design some nice shotguns, but not in the same league with the Italians and Germans (owned them from all three countries). Lastly there's not a whole lot in common these days with a Kimber and a mil-spec 1911; other than looks. But the 1911a1 is a great weapon for sure.
gary
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 11, 2010 - 07:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I'm not a Browning anything fan in case it matters
gary



Hmmm... SF going back to the Kimber 1911. Everyone in the free world using the fi'ty. Several nations still using the .30. And many armies I've worked with still using the Browning Hi-power as well. I'd say he had his $#!+ wired pretty tight.
You're not a fan of the Tech-9 by any chance...?



Robert -

I hear what you're saying.....but what's Browning done for us lately??? I mean his stuff is almost a hundred years old and still in use...but show me the plastic. Where are all the sexy camo colors? The guy had no sense of marketing or sex appeal. All he really did was create very straight forward, effective killing machines that have stood the test of time.

I really need to replace my 1911A1 one of these days, if I can ever find another pistol I'd trust my life with!!



Semper Fi,
Dave



now as much as I cussed Browning firearms, I have a deep facination for them (well a good many). I own a couple Hi-Walls (.30-30AI & 38-55). I also shoot a Lo-Wall in .223 (better said trying to shoot a Lo-Wall). All are Browning built copies of the Winchester designs. The last Browning shotgun I owned was a 12 gauge Liege. Great pheasant gun, but didn't point well, and had a terrible balance. I replaced it with a Beretta. But both are second rate compaired to a Bernadelli Hemingway.
gary
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 11, 2010 - 08:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

One of the benefits that came with being in an artillery battery in Vietnam was that each battery had an allotment of M-2 .50 cals for anti-aircraft protection. (At least the Marine batteries had 4 of them apiece.) In addition to the truck mounts, we also had 4 AA ground mount contraptions and tripod and T&E mechanisms.

The Marine batteries also were alloted two bulldozers, but we never saw those in the field and had no truck/trailer combinations to move them with the battery. I always found that difficult to understand until I returned to modeling. It appears that the dozers were initially on the TE as prime movers for the guns. Later, after the Marine Corps discovered trucks, they were replaced, but a couple tractors were retained for dragging the guns through unpleasant places and for setting up field fortifications. Naturally, the genius that allotted the tractors made no provision for moving them at highway speeds with the rest of the battery's vehicles.

If memory serves me correctly, the machined ring near the muzzle of the M-114A1 was used to hold a strap that, in turn, held a couple of crossed "wires" used to boresite the piece. There should also be a couple machined slots right on the muzzle that held the wires in position at right angles. The wires were laid in the grooves and then placed under the stap to hold them in position. A steel plate with a hole in the center was inserted into the breech of the piece and the cross hairs aimed at the boresiting board. The pantel was them adjusted to its target on the board and the piece was boresited.

The M-1917/M-1918 155mm Howitzer was updated (high speed tires) and used in WWII until the M-1 155mm Howitzer was brought on line. The M-1 155mm howitzer had a stable-mate - a 4.5 inch gun. It was not used much in WWII. There used to be a line of those bad boys at Ft. Sill. We practiced laying the guns on them....getting familiar with the pantels and aiming circles. No one knew much about them except they were an odd British caliber. The 4.5 inch gun also had the machined surface that Gary spoke of.

I think Gary was speaking of my pics of the M-114A1 at Camp Lejeune. He is absolutely correct that the barrel of the weapon was machined steel and not painted. My guess is that the 10th Marines chose to not spend Marine time continuing to maintain and polish the tube...so they just threw a coat of aluminum paint on it to simulate the machined surface. It's difficult to find a display piece anywhere that is kept in near-functioning condition.

Lastly, the M-109A1's and later models were not used in Vietnam. The M-109A1's were just being introduced in 1971/72 just as the war in Vietnam was winding down. None of those guns were deployed in country to my knowledge.

Semper Fi,
Dave



I was told a couple times that the barrel with the groove on it was also 1.5" longer. Having never seen one I don't know for sure. All the barrels I ever saw were the ones without that groove. But one of the problems with a 155 towed gun was shooting direct fire (looks easy dosn't it?). There is no good way to sight in the barrel, except to look thru the breech. We kept charts for pre-registered targets that were too close to shoot indirect fire or high angle (not a lot of fun). And even the the deflection would be off a couple hundred yards for the first couple shots. We bore sighted in similar fashion, but used string and a lot of luck. After bore sighting the gun we would then register it with an FO down range. The base piece did this weekly, but the rest did it maybe once every month or six weeks

back to the very early 155 howitzer is second. I have one parked down the road from me if somebody wants a few pictures. Kind of antique looking, but also kinda neat looking. I maybe wrong, but I thought I saw a picture on one being used in the PTO in early 1942.
gary
Whiskey6
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: August 15, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, July 11, 2010 - 09:18 AM UTC


Quoted Text

I was told a couple times that the barrel with the groove on it was also 1.5" longer. Having never seen one I don't know for sure. All the barrels I ever saw were the ones without that groove. But one of the problems with a 155 towed gun was shooting direct fire (looks easy dosn't it?). There is no good way to sight in the barrel, except to look thru the breech. We kept charts for pre-registered targets that were too close to shoot indirect fire or high angle (not a lot of fun). And even the the deflection would be off a couple hundred yards for the first couple shots. We bore sighted in similar fashion, but used string and a lot of luck. After bore sighting the gun we would then register it with an FO down range. The base piece did this weekly, but the rest did it maybe once every month or six weeks

back to the very early 155 howitzer is second. I have one parked down the road from me if somebody wants a few pictures. Kind of antique looking, but also kinda neat looking. I maybe wrong, but I thought I saw a picture on one being used in the PTO in early 1942.
gary



I know the 11th Marines used the M-1917/1918 155mm howitzer on Guadalcanal in late 1942 and early 1943. I'm not sure how long they used htem after that. I'd love to see the pics if you have them.

Dave
Frenchy
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Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, July 11, 2010 - 10:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I know the 11th Marines used the M-1917/1918 155mm howitzer on Guadalcanal in late 1942 and early 1943.





Another one (used by Chinese troops according to the caption):


Here's a M1918 Howitzer at Camp Blanding, Florida (with a different gun shield) :



Hi-Res

Frenchy
joegrafton
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Posted: Sunday, July 11, 2010 - 06:56 PM UTC
Yeah, Gary, I'd love to see the pictures, too!
Please send them over when you can?
Thanks pal.
Joe.
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Monday, July 12, 2010 - 05:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text



Quoted Text

I was told a couple times that the barrel with the groove on it was also 1.5" longer. Having never seen one I don't know for sure. All the barrels I ever saw were the ones without that groove. But one of the problems with a 155 towed gun was shooting direct fire (looks easy dosn't it?). There is no good way to sight in the barrel, except to look thru the breech. We kept charts for pre-registered targets that were too close to shoot indirect fire or high angle (not a lot of fun). And even the the deflection would be off a couple hundred yards for the first couple shots. We bore sighted in similar fashion, but used string and a lot of luck. After bore sighting the gun we would then register it with an FO down range. The base piece did this weekly, but the rest did it maybe once every month or six weeks

back to the very early 155 howitzer is second. I have one parked down the road from me if somebody wants a few pictures. Kind of antique looking, but also kinda neat looking. I maybe wrong, but I thought I saw a picture on one being used in the PTO in early 1942.
gary



I know the 11th Marines used the M-1917/1918 155mm howitzer on Guadalcanal in late 1942 and early 1943. I'm not sure how long they used htem after that. I'd love to see the pics if you have them.

Dave



that maybe the photo I saw. For the longest time I couldn't figure out what it was till I ran accross the one parked south of me.
gary
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Monday, July 12, 2010 - 05:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Yeah, Gary, I'd love to see the pictures, too!
Please send them over when you can?
Thanks pal.
Joe.



well I almost made it down that way yesterday afternoon, but Gloria had better plans. Right now it looks like rain is in my future (and my head is hurting real bad)
gary
18Bravo
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Joined: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Monday, July 12, 2010 - 12:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I'm not a Browning anything fan in case it matters
gary



Hmmm... SF going back to the Kimber 1911. Everyone in the free world using the fi'ty. Several nations still using the .30. And many armies I've worked with still using the Browning Hi-power as well. I'd say he had his $#!+ wired pretty tight.
You're not a fan of the Tech-9 by any chance...?



Robert -

I hear what you're saying.....but what's Browning done for us lately??? I mean his stuff is almost a hundred years old and still in use...but show me the plastic. Where are all the sexy camo colors? The guy had no sense of marketing or sex appeal. All he really did was create very straight forward, effective killing machines that have stood the test of time.

I really need to replace my 1911A1 one of these days, if I can ever find another pistol I'd trust my life with!!



Semper Fi,
Dave



Now that was funny...
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