ok.....I know, this is a cheap crappy model, but it's all I've got at the moment.
http://www.plasticsoldiers.co.uk/photos/BMC/ww13.JPG
I know this isn't highly detailed, and the detail is not what you guys would normally accept as up to par. I'm planning on using one of these in an Omaha Beach dio, and one in a Normandy offensive, hedgegrow battle dio.
I'm wondering if you guys could lend any tips or pointers on what should be done to this before I paint it and put it in the dio. Should I try to add more details and....stuff?
I'm pretty beginner to working with tanks, so any beginner help would be appreciated. Thanks,
Matthew
Hosted by Darren Baker
Beginner help for a crappy model
exigent99
Joined: July 30, 2007
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 78 posts
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 78 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 10:51 AM UTC
CMOT
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: May 14, 2006
KitMaker: 10,954 posts
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Posted: Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 11:02 AM UTC
Matthew I cannot get your link to work please can you repost it.
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 11:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
ok.....I know, this is a cheap crappy model, but it's all I've got at the moment.
http://www.plasticsoldiers.co.uk/photos/BMC/ww13.JPG
I know this isn't highly detailed, and the detail is not what you guys would normally accept as up to par. I'm planning on using one of these in an Omaha Beach dio, and one in a Normandy offensive, hedgegrow battle dio.
I'm wondering if you guys could lend any tips or pointers on what should be done to this before I paint it and put it in the dio. Should I try to add more details and....stuff?
I'm pretty beginner to working with tanks, so any beginner help would be appreciated. Thanks,
Matthew
Even for a small scale kit, the model has a lot of difficult errors. The driver and c-driver's hatches have no periscopes, the commander's hatch is positioned with an oversized hinge opening at the wrong angle, the hull machine gun mount is just an oval, featureless blob. Historically, it doesn't work either. It's an M4A3, and US tanks in the Normandy fighting were all M4 and M4A1 tanks, to simplify the supply situation, as they used the same air cooled engine. The Ford-engined M4A3 doesn't appear until the breakout in August, and the late style commander's cupola doesn't become common until 1945.
exigent99
Joined: July 30, 2007
KitMaker: 100 posts
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KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 78 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 01:17 PM UTC
I'll have to take a picture I guess, as I can't really find any good pics on the net.....Like I said, I know it's a crappy model. I'm interested in finding out what I can do to fix that. I'll post a pic as soon as I can.
exigent99
Joined: July 30, 2007
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 78 posts
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 78 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 02:03 PM UTC
ok, here's a few pics.....
I'm going to come out and show my total lack of armor history knowledge.....is there something I could to these in order to make them suitable for a Normandy campaign time frame, or is it a big general shape type of thing that can't really be changed?
Anyway, here's the pics, any suggestions would be much appreciated.
I'm going to come out and show my total lack of armor history knowledge.....is there something I could to these in order to make them suitable for a Normandy campaign time frame, or is it a big general shape type of thing that can't really be changed?
Anyway, here's the pics, any suggestions would be much appreciated.
stoney
Joined: October 16, 2006
KitMaker: 480 posts
Armorama: 399 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 02:22 PM UTC
Oh boy, there is not really much you can do to bring this back to an M4, and nothing to bring it in line with an M4A1 (these had a cast hull, rounded edges) You could make this work just fine in a winter dio, late 44-45, mabey the battle of the bulge. As Gerald said this is an M4A3 wet stowage, to make it an M4 (dry) you would have to:
Change the angle of the rear hull to vertical
change the front glacis and add the bulges for the driver and bow gunner
change the hatches for said driver/gunner to the early narrow ones
change the rear engine deck to an m4, armoured air intake etc.
cut the comanders hatch down and change it to the early split hatch
remove the loaders hatch on the turret.
Cut the suspension apart and correct it as it dosent make any sense, the "wing things" on top of the suspension units (called bogies) shoul only be facing backwards and hold the return roller for the tracks
....
unfortunatly this dosent leave much of the tank remaining. Id have to say youd be better off trying your hand at a winter dio, try out using snow etc.
Ask away on here for advice on correcting things there are a ton of great shermaholics here, and browse the galleries for pictures of shermies people have done up, it will help put you on the right track. Best of luck!
Change the angle of the rear hull to vertical
change the front glacis and add the bulges for the driver and bow gunner
change the hatches for said driver/gunner to the early narrow ones
change the rear engine deck to an m4, armoured air intake etc.
cut the comanders hatch down and change it to the early split hatch
remove the loaders hatch on the turret.
Cut the suspension apart and correct it as it dosent make any sense, the "wing things" on top of the suspension units (called bogies) shoul only be facing backwards and hold the return roller for the tracks
....
unfortunatly this dosent leave much of the tank remaining. Id have to say youd be better off trying your hand at a winter dio, try out using snow etc.
Ask away on here for advice on correcting things there are a ton of great shermaholics here, and browse the galleries for pictures of shermies people have done up, it will help put you on the right track. Best of luck!
Removed by original poster on 01/25/09 - 20:47:32 (GMT).
exigent99
Joined: July 30, 2007
KitMaker: 100 posts
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KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 78 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 02:39 PM UTC
Not sure what the brand is....possibly new ray....but not sure. Scale: 1/35 I guess. I have 1/32 figs, and they look a bit large next to it.
Hmmmm......well, I had two ideas in mind. One, an Omaha beach landing dio, and a Normandy offensive dio with a sherman crashing through hedgegrow. Apparently neither of those are historically feasible. Since they aren't, could any of you point me to a "cheap" alternative that would fit the bill? Problem is, my figs are 1/32 I believe, so a bit larger.
Second, since I have these two things, I'd just as soon use them. I had a couple other ideas, but they were abandoned, in favor of the others. Since the others are not feasible, would these ideas work with the models I have?
1. Something similar to this: https://armorama.kitmaker.net//features/1568
I can see one of the tanks seems to have a special air intake system?
2. I have had the idea in my head for awhile of having a pacific jungle diorama with a few U.S. Infantry advancing warily through a jungle ruin, with a nearby half-sunk derelict and grimy sherman.
Would either of those be feasible with what I have? I'm assuming it's a closer shot, since the pacific campaign lasted longer.
btw, just so ya'll know, I'm not a total noob
I am actually quite handy at scenery and, not terrible at figure painting. However, even though I know my general history, I don't know enough "detailed" stuff to be able to figure this out on my own. I apologize for my ignorance. 
Hmmmm......well, I had two ideas in mind. One, an Omaha beach landing dio, and a Normandy offensive dio with a sherman crashing through hedgegrow. Apparently neither of those are historically feasible. Since they aren't, could any of you point me to a "cheap" alternative that would fit the bill? Problem is, my figs are 1/32 I believe, so a bit larger.
Second, since I have these two things, I'd just as soon use them. I had a couple other ideas, but they were abandoned, in favor of the others. Since the others are not feasible, would these ideas work with the models I have?
1. Something similar to this: https://armorama.kitmaker.net//features/1568
I can see one of the tanks seems to have a special air intake system?
2. I have had the idea in my head for awhile of having a pacific jungle diorama with a few U.S. Infantry advancing warily through a jungle ruin, with a nearby half-sunk derelict and grimy sherman.
Would either of those be feasible with what I have? I'm assuming it's a closer shot, since the pacific campaign lasted longer.
btw, just so ya'll know, I'm not a total noob
I am actually quite handy at scenery and, not terrible at figure painting. However, even though I know my general history, I don't know enough "detailed" stuff to be able to figure this out on my own. I apologize for my ignorance. exigent99
Joined: July 30, 2007
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 78 posts
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 78 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 06:26 AM UTC
So....any suggestions on my latest two ideas? Would they work or not?
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 06:57 AM UTC
I would suggest getting an actual model, not a poorly cast toy. It is really bad. I am not a Sherman expert, but I think a cheap Italeri M4A1 would work for Normandy. It would be way superior to this thing. The detail is horrible on it.
BigfootV
Joined: December 24, 2005
KitMaker: 1,624 posts
Armorama: 994 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 07:14 AM UTC
Matt,
I'm not sure that will fly my friend. I have got to ask you is this a refence piece for scale?
Gino,
Cut the guy some slack, some modellers use toys like that to get a feel for scale. Something that has not been asked at all in this post.
I'm not sure that will fly my friend. I have got to ask you is this a refence piece for scale?
Gino,
Cut the guy some slack, some modellers use toys like that to get a feel for scale. Something that has not been asked at all in this post.
exigent99
Joined: July 30, 2007
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 78 posts
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 78 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 07:52 AM UTC
hmmm. So, basically, good for nothing, eh? That kind of stinks. Problem is, my figs are from conte collectibles, and are 1/32......I'm pretty sure they would be to large to work with with a 1/35 scale kit.
BigfootV
Joined: December 24, 2005
KitMaker: 1,624 posts
Armorama: 994 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 08:07 AM UTC
No Gary I didn't miss the post.
I was make the case that the minds eye gets clouded sometimes and it needs some help.
I was not going to knock this persons post because I don't feel it is my place, job or duty to do so.
I don't not judge, and try not do.
I was make the case that the minds eye gets clouded sometimes and it needs some help.
I was not going to knock this persons post because I don't feel it is my place, job or duty to do so.
I don't not judge, and try not do.
Straniero
Joined: December 20, 2008
KitMaker: 130 posts
Armorama: 127 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 08:08 AM UTC
Quoted Text
hmmm. So, basically, good for nothing, eh? That kind of stinks. Problem is, my figs are from conte collectibles, and are 1/32......I'm pretty sure they would be to large to work with with a 1/35 scale kit.
They are too large for what you have as well. I stood next to a Sherman. I am 1.90m tall (6'3") and the tank's hull (without turret) reaches up above me, if I remember correctly. The fellow running next to it in your photo must be an awfully big guy.
Can't say I'm too positive about the figure anyway. A basic DML figure set, without anything fancy like resin heads, turns out looking a lot better than this, eh, 'collectible' you have there.
KoSprueOne
Joined: March 05, 2004
KitMaker: 4,011 posts
Armorama: 1,498 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 08:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
CALLSIGN: exigent99
ok.....I know, this is a cheap crappy model, but it's all I've got at the moment.
I know this isn't highly detailed, and the detail is not what you guys would normally accept as up to par. I'm planning on using one of these in an Omaha Beach dio, and one in a Normandy offensive, hedgegrow battle dio.
I'm wondering if you guys could lend any tips or pointers on what should be done to this before I paint it and put it in the dio. Should I try to add more details and....stuff?
I'm pretty beginner to working with tanks, so any beginner help would be appreciated. Thanks,
Matthew
I would suggest not trying to cut and remodel this particular toy tank. Does it have the plastic disc wheels under and behind the tracks?
Toy plastic is very difficult to control and work with. I agree with a post above that suggests to purchase a scale IM (Injection Molded) styrene model instead.
However this tank detail quality does perfectly match the figures you already have. I would just paint this one as it is, by first priming with an automotive flexible primer that they use on plastic bumpers and other flexible plastic body panels.
exigent99
Joined: July 30, 2007
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 78 posts
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 78 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 08:32 AM UTC
ok, well, I can take the point that the tanks are crappy. I said that in the first place, so no harm done there guys.
However, there's nothing wrong with the fig. First off, the pic was blurry, so you can't really tell, but the figures from conte are actually quite nice.
Here's a link that shows a very nice vignette with a metal figure that is an almost exact copy of the figure in my pic....
http://www.oldnwtc.com/Old_NW_Site/cool_stuff_folder/tell_my_wife_folder/tell_my_wife.html
Oh, and I didn't say it was collectible, I said the name of the company was conte collectibles.
However, there's nothing wrong with the fig. First off, the pic was blurry, so you can't really tell, but the figures from conte are actually quite nice.
Here's a link that shows a very nice vignette with a metal figure that is an almost exact copy of the figure in my pic....
http://www.oldnwtc.com/Old_NW_Site/cool_stuff_folder/tell_my_wife_folder/tell_my_wife.html
Oh, and I didn't say it was collectible, I said the name of the company was conte collectibles.
monkybutt
Joined: November 28, 2007
KitMaker: 381 posts
Armorama: 321 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 08:33 AM UTC
i'm no expert on shermans...but if ur just looking to make it look good and not worrying about accuracy focus on a good paint and weathering job on teh tank and figures and i think you will be satisfied with the outcome, unless they are serious modelers, your frinds and family should be impressed and won't know the difference.
2 modifications i think you oculd make fairly easily are:
1. drill a hole in teh tip of the sherman's barrel. this will halp a lot. u can use a dremmel tool or just an exacto knife to cut it. take ur time and BE CAREFUL!!
2. with sandpaper, remove the seam line that goes around the turret and any other places you notice. a line like this would never be seen on a real vehicle.
remember, as long as you are happy with it, the model is great!!!
good luck and enjoy!
2 modifications i think you oculd make fairly easily are:
1. drill a hole in teh tip of the sherman's barrel. this will halp a lot. u can use a dremmel tool or just an exacto knife to cut it. take ur time and BE CAREFUL!!
2. with sandpaper, remove the seam line that goes around the turret and any other places you notice. a line like this would never be seen on a real vehicle.
remember, as long as you are happy with it, the model is great!!!
good luck and enjoy!
Removed by original poster on 01/25/09 - 20:48:00 (GMT).
exigent99
Joined: July 30, 2007
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 78 posts
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 78 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 08:37 AM UTC
hey, monkeybutt, thanks for the suggestions.
Truth be told, I was actually considering just going ahead and making the dios anyway *gasp*
I appreciate the suggestions, advice, and opinions from all here, whether about modeling or history, but I simply don't have the money to be going out and purchasing the types things that ya'll are suggesting.
So, either I forget using them at all, or I just go ahead an do it, but never show it off to people that actually now anything.....
I gotta admit, it's a toss up.
Truth be told, I was actually considering just going ahead and making the dios anyway *gasp*
I appreciate the suggestions, advice, and opinions from all here, whether about modeling or history, but I simply don't have the money to be going out and purchasing the types things that ya'll are suggesting.
So, either I forget using them at all, or I just go ahead an do it, but never show it off to people that actually now anything.....
I gotta admit, it's a toss up.
exigent99
Joined: July 30, 2007
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 78 posts
KitMaker: 100 posts
Armorama: 78 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 08:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Personally you could find a Tamiya Sherman for 25 to 30 dollars and a good set of 1/35 scale figures total less than 40 dollars for everything. About the only thing what you have is good to use it for practice. Wash it good with dish detergent. Let it dry good and paint with a good primer. Use your brush painting skills. You could put it in muddy and jungle terrain. Put camoflage branches and netting on it. If you like what you have accomplished then get a more accurate model. Tamiya are easy to build and fairly accurate. For what you are trying to do you dontt need the most expensive models on the market
I would be tempted to take your advice, except for the fact that I already have a good 20-30 figures to use, besides two of these Shermans, and a King Tiger as well.
Although I may sometime in near future, I do not currently have $40 bucks to go out and spend on brand new everything, so I'm tempted to just use what I've got, and wait until later to crank out anything better.
So, back to my original question.....is there anything, besides what monkeybutt already suggested, that I can do to THESE to make them better?
lespauljames
Joined: January 06, 2007
KitMaker: 3,661 posts
Armorama: 2,764 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 09:31 AM UTC
hey buddy,
you are gonna need tools for what ever you do, for me, some fine sandpaper(really fine 1200) a scalpel brush and green paint set me back around £5
you could also check out the buy sell and trade section of the forums, you can pick up kits for very little.
awnsering your question, really there is nothing you can do,
i suggest,maybe picking up a few cheap 1/72 scale kits,
thats what i started on, if your not bothered so much with accuracy, maybe the revell 1/72 kits. they gave me hours of fun.an are less than £5 usually
whatever you choose.
good luck
you are gonna need tools for what ever you do, for me, some fine sandpaper(really fine 1200) a scalpel brush and green paint set me back around £5
you could also check out the buy sell and trade section of the forums, you can pick up kits for very little.
awnsering your question, really there is nothing you can do,
i suggest,maybe picking up a few cheap 1/72 scale kits,
thats what i started on, if your not bothered so much with accuracy, maybe the revell 1/72 kits. they gave me hours of fun.an are less than £5 usually
whatever you choose.
good luck
Kuno-Von-Dodenburg
Joined: February 20, 2007
KitMaker: 1,453 posts
Armorama: 1,319 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 10:07 AM UTC
Matthew,
In all honesty, I think that trying to modify and make ANYTHING out of this thing would be far more trouble than it's worth, a sure-fire recipe for frustration and - ultimately - an exercise in futility. Especially for a beginner.
As Gino says, it's a plastic toy, not a model.
Ditch it and - if money is an issue - get yourself the cheapest Sherman KIT that you can find: Because ANYTHING would be better than this.
- Steve
In all honesty, I think that trying to modify and make ANYTHING out of this thing would be far more trouble than it's worth, a sure-fire recipe for frustration and - ultimately - an exercise in futility. Especially for a beginner.
As Gino says, it's a plastic toy, not a model.
Ditch it and - if money is an issue - get yourself the cheapest Sherman KIT that you can find: Because ANYTHING would be better than this.
- Steve
exer
Joined: November 27, 2004
KitMaker: 6,048 posts
Armorama: 4,619 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 10:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
So, back to my original question.....is there anything, besides what monkeybutt already suggested, that I can do to THESE to make them better?
Well you could do everything that stoney suggested in his post but as he says you'd have nothing of the original tank left. But really it is not worth doing anything with.
I would say leave it as it is and practice your painting skills on it. It's not really even good enough to go with Conte Colectible figures which are quite good. Use them on their own to create little vignettes.
If you want Armor models in 1/32 look out for old Monogram kits which would go well with Conte figures.
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