Hi, can anybody tell me where is the right place to set the radio inside the pz.38 B from Tristar?

Claudio,

The radio installs directly onto the drive shaft cover just after it joins to the transmission. HTH.

thank you very much,
I am for the first time joing a forum and your one is the firt answer i did get, i did look a lot of photos of pz. 38 but in no one there was the radio positions, somewhere in a book they say that it was ''in front on the left side'', because of this information i was thinking the radio shoul be probably covering that small window on the left up beside the machine gun, but probably you are right, can you tell me where is possible to find a picture that show the right way to set it ?
Thanks again for your help and please forgive my orrible english.
Claudio

Claudio,

This photo from the Nuts & Bolts #15 might help...pics of 38t interiors are hard to come by.



On the far left is the transmission and just underneath the rack you can see the drive shaft cover. HTH. The radio operator's position was on the left side unlike most German vehicles where he sat on the right. There isn't enough space for the radio to mount to the left side of the hull and allow the radio operator to handle the hull MG, so the only option is on the drive shaft. The rack for the transformers goes under the drive shaft.

This photo shows you the drive shaft without the radio rack in position (different vehicle) but shows the position of the transformer rack underneath.



I'm building the Tristar interior for a Tamiya Marder III myself and the instructions are a little vague on this area, something that can be quite frustrating given how important this particular detail is!

Thank you for the Photos Bill
I will study them very carfuly and i will try to resolve the mistery of pz.38 fadio,
I must agree with you that to set the radio ''in front on the left'' like they write on squadron signal armor in action pz.38 it look to be very strange.
Please, write me more if you get furter information.
Claudio

Glad it helps you Claudio. Considering how tiny the fighting compartment on the 38(t) is, there's really no other place for the radios to go. In the gun-tank version, the raised wooden surface is where the gunner and loader would be located along with the commander, so very tight spaces to deal with. I think the Tristar instructions could certainly have been more helpful in this regard but between the diagrams and the photos I've got it figured it out I think.

I checked my 38t references and found no pics of the radio placement. Nice pics Bill I'll have to say those for future ref's. If I find anything I'll be sure to post it here for you.

Rob

Hi Bill,I am still studing about the problem, when i look to the instructions sheet of the Eduard set about pz.38 tristar itnterior (35914) it look like ''in front on the left'', and aniway it is not clear to me what for was the little windov on that side (to let pass the cable out?).
I like to replicate my kits the most possible like the original one was, this point about the radio it is getting very interesting , maybe there were different solutions for the model B. and the other versions?
Ciao Claudio

The interior layouts stayed the same in all the gun-tank versions with the exception of the changes related to the superstructure front plate (angled in the B but changed to a straight plate in the E) affecting the driver's position and controls. This was true for all of the vehicles up through the H that were used for Marders as well. It was only when the engines were relocated to the middle that the interior layouts changed. If I understand your question about the small "window" at the front of the radio rack, I think this was designed as a brace for the rectangular holder for the radio itself or possibly the mount for the junction box that allowed the radio operator to plug in his headset and microphone? Hard to say for sure.

Claudio,

I've been giving this quite a bit of thought now that I've got the interior built for my Marder III project and I'm going to come back on what I said earlier...I think that the radio in the gun tank actually does mount on the side of the hull but forward of the radio operator's seat. Here's why I think that...here's how the interior assembles together with the hull MG and everything else in position. (Keeping in mind that the radios were positioned over the drive-shaft in the Marder III and III H.)





I show these because of how crowded the addition of the radios to the drive-shaft makes things in the area that, on the gun-tank version, would be directly below the turret where the gunner, loader, and commander would need to operate.

When you think about that vs. the drawings in Panzer Tracts No. 18, there's no way in my view that the radio can mount onto the drive shaft.





Now the above drawings complicate things because they are a Slovak LT38 that didn't have a radio mounted...but consider where the antenna mast is on the outside of the 38t hull. Assuming that the radio would have to mount pretty close to that to connect to the antenna, I think it's safe to say that the radio would mount to the hull side between the seat and the brake/transmission housing. Only the receiver unit would mount however...the transmitter would've been fitted only in the befehlspanzer tanks...and those had the hull MG removed in order to make the necessary room for the equipment to be fitted. Considering that Tristar made the interior set applicable to all of its 38t kits, that's why the 2nd radio box (the transmitter) is fitted...you need that for the G Befehlspanzer option.

The radio can't fit next to the radio operator's seat because his hatch to enter/exit the vehicle is directly overhead and that area needs to remain clear to allow entry/exit from the vehicle. That leaves only one real space available...the space near the floor under the glacis and in front of the final drive housing. Considering that the mount that Tristar includes is designed for a vertical surface and the type of mount they have in the Tristar Marder III H is totally different and designed for mounting on the drive shaft leads me to this conclusion. The lack of actual photos showing this is somewhat aggravating but the available evidence and deduction makes me reasonably certain this is the way the radio was mounted in the actual gun-tank vehicle.

I’ve been spending a lot of time puzzling about the locations of the German radios in the Pz.Kpfw 38(t); reading about the opinions of others, and pouring over as many photos as I can find – on the ‘net and within the two MBI books - (on the, can we say for ‘shorthand’, the Pz35 and the Pz38).

I’ve also built recently, all of the main kit releases - (old Italeri, new Italeri, Maquette, Dragon and Tristar) – ‘back-to-back’. I know, I need some help!

Here is my analysis and conclusions, FWIW:

Czech radio set vz.37
In the beginning was the original Czech vz.37 radio (consisting of the RV16 transmitter and the P27 receiver). This unit was mounted above the radio operator / gunners left shoulder. This assertion makes sense to me, because:

 Charles Kliment says so (in the MBI Praga book)
 There is a ‘slit’ in the hull at this point - which is not a ‘vision port’ - but is an air vent (it is labelled as such - ‘luftschlitz’ - in the Pz38 Technical Manual) - and which is there to help keep the Czech radio set well ventilated and help stop the unit getting overheated. BTW, just take a look at the outside of a Pz38 and compare the ‘cover’ on the left-hand side of the vehicle, with the vision port in the same position on the right-hand side – they are quite different – as they serve different purposes
 There is also some interior detail moulded into the kit side wall (in the Dragon kit anyways) at this position that could represent the original mounting brackets for the Czech radio - (and, BTW, Eduard provide a finer version of these mountings in a couple of their photo-etch sets – #35914 and #35020).
 On the outside of the hull, the antenna ‘pot’ is also located near to the hull ‘slit’ – and one would expect the antenna pot to be near to the actual radio, and to have a means of accessing the radio set itself - by passing the cable through the ‘slit’
 A British evaluation report on the LT vz.38 tank notes that: “the (bow) gunner could not sit back comfortably as the wireless set was in the way of his left shoulder." Indeed, you can see by looking at any of the kits, that if the original radio was fitted here, as seems very highly likely, it would certainly make the radio operators position pretty cramped.
 It’s fitted in a similar position in the LT vz.35 – (and, incidentally, there is a beautiful, coloured illustration of one, in situ, in the MBI Skoda LT vz.35 book)

German Fu2 receiver
The above conclusion is perhaps moot, since the LT vz.38, soon became Pz.Kpfw 38(t), and had the Czech radio units replaced with the more powerful, German Fu2 receivers.

Many sources note that all of the non-command tanks were fitted with the Fu2 receivers only (so they could receive orders – but not transmit any messages). In my assessment, the Fu2 unit is rather bigger that the Czech vz.37 especially in terms of its thickness. Therefore, it seems pretty unlikely to me that it was located in the same position as the original Czech radio set.

Again, just playing about with the various kit parts, and looking at available photos and drawings, shows that there was very little room indeed for a larger unit, above, behind or in front of, the RO’s shoulder. If he felt cramped with the vz.37, then I think he would have had very little room with the larger Fu2.

Some folks have suggested that the radio was re-located on top of the ‘transmission tunnel’. I believe that this is a pretty reasonable assertion – especially if only the Fu2 receiver is being considered. To check this out, I printed out a large copy of a cross-sectional drawing of a Pz38 and sketched in the Fu2, mounted as forward as possible on the transmission tunnel. I also traced the outline of the hanging seats so I could move them around to emulate the changing turret positions, and ‘guessimated’ where the electrical conduit ‘pipe’ would be, based on the photos shown above and some others. (You can see the electrical conduit ‘pipe’ in photograph 18-4 above, at the bottom of the photograph, as it emerges from the ‘schleifringubertrager’ (turret power slip ring) in the centre of the transmission cover).

Based on these sketches, it seems to me that the hanging turret seats, and the electrical conduit pipe that angles up from the turret power slip ring up to the tank commanders ‘traffic light’ signal box (and ending-up under the main gun) – will all just about clear the receiver unit as the turret spins. However, the guys in the turret will need to be careful that they don’t kick the receiver as they spin around. (Incidentally, it also seems to me, from my drawings that the RO and the driver needed to keep their heads well forward otherwise they could get a crack around the back of their heads by the turret seat ‘hangers’ or the electrical conduit ‘pipe’!).

So, I think there is a strong (circumstantial) case for the Fu2, (receiver only), being located on top of the transmission tunnel – as far forward as possible.

BTW, one or two people have speculated that the Fu2 receiver was located under the glacis plate near the radio operator’s feet. This, again seems a reasonable idea – but I think that having it located on top of the transmission tunnel is more likely – since it makes things a little less cramped for the already hard-pressed RO without having a major downside? I think it would be a little easier to access too, if the RO slides his seat back a little.

German Fu5 receiver / transmitter
However, I do not believe this conclusion to be true for those tanks fitted with the Fu5 receiver and transmitter. This combined unit, (as supplied in the Dragon Ausf G kit), is the same width and height as the Fu2, but is twice as long.

In my opinion, based on the above ‘playing’ with the drawings, this unit will not fit on top of the transmission tunnel without fouling the turret power slip ring (which, BTW, is missing on the Dragon and Tristar kits, but is depicted in the Maquette and new Italeri kits).

Furthermore, I think the longer unit would also venture too far into the lower area of the central hull and interfere too much with the legs of the turret crew - and either impede their movements – or lead to the combined radio set being damaged by them kicking it!

I believe that the Fu5 was located in this position in the ‘Marder’ type, open-top vehicles. This is because the Marder has no turret, no dangling seats or legs, and no turret slip ring and associated conduit. So it can fit there without causing any of the problems alluded to above.

Some sources have suggested that, when fitted, the Fu5 was mounted in a cage hanging from the hull roof, positioned along the centre-line of the tank – and, when fitted also, the Fu2 was then mounted on the transmission tunnel, towards the front of the vehicle, immediately before the gear box. I’m not sure that I buy all of this - for similar reasons:

 It would interfere with the rotation of the turret as described above - (but perhaps this is not an issue if the turret was locked – which I think was the case for the command vehicles)
 It would make it nigh on impossible for the driver to get out of the vehicle by way of the (usual) radio operators hatch – (but I guess he could evacuate the vehicle by way of the turret hatch if necessary)
 There is no significant ‘roof’ above and between the RO and the driver in the Pz38 – so what would you attach the cage too?
 The hull machine gun would get in the way – (unless the machine gun was removed)


IMHO, it makes more sense for the Fu5 to be mounted on the front hull plate, over the machine gun aperture and the RO’s front vision slit. It will be remembered that the ‘command’ versions of the Pz38 had the hull machine gun removed and the resultant aperture plated over. In this case, it seems to be a reasonable assumption that the Fu5 was mounted on the inside of the front hull plate across the vehicle. For the HQ level vehicles, that were fitted with Fu5 and Fu2 – I think the Fu5 could be mounted on the front hull plate as per the above and the Fu2 could be mounted on the transmission cover – as per the ‘standard’ tanks.

So, I think there is a some (circumstantial) case for the Fu5, (receiver and transmitter), being mounted on the front hull plate, over the RO’s visor and hull machine gun aperture – in the ‘command’ versions of the vehicle – with the Fu2, where fitted, mounted on top of the transmission tunnel.



Well, there you have it – sorry it’s a bit long winded – but hopefully it will help some.



Kr
Trevor

Trevor;

Very nice analysis! Glad you posted this when you did, as I am just now exercising the 38(t) in a few guises (Tristar E/F "standard" no interior, Dragon Aufklarungs 2cm and 7.5cm, and a Tristar G Befehls... with the Tristar interior kit plus some bits). It would seem we share a weird passion for this beastie!

In particular, your dissection of the Fu 5 transmitter placement (presumably only in those Befehls... with both send and receive) seems pretty reasonable. All 38(t) versions which were fashioned as "befehlspanzer" had that hull MG removed and blanked-off, and surely for some reason. I'll bet you have pretty well pegged that spot-on.

I'm pleased to see at least some of us recognize that the left hull-side "Luftslit" actually had a purpose and was not merely some weird thing the designers added on for whimsy! That the Fu 2 receiver was much larger than the old Czech radio should, as you have done, be considered - and your proposed "over the tranny" placement makes reasonable sense, to me. This would, of course, have vacated the intent and functionality of that Luftslit... but likely it was Hobb's choice - you want an (Fu 2) radio in that little tank, it must go elsewhere than up by that slit.

The evident lack of room along that drive-shaft (where kits have placed the radios) coupled with risk of fouling turret crew and bits (and as you deliciously noted, risk of hull crew being clocked by turret-hanger's boots), does also compel one to look elsewhere for a place to stash that second radio...

Mounting the Fu 5 somewheres at or about the actual MG mount position makes a lot of sense. It also offers a very interesting-sounding new visual component to be seen thru the open radioman's hatch! Now, if only we can figure out a rack-mount and a reasonable cabling scheme... headset, mic, power-link, antenna lead (hmmm. The Fu 2 receiver ant. lead probably went to a junction box with a lead out to that pot via that slit... More likely the Fu 5 hooked separately to that rear-deck frame antenna... which would call for a long and loopy lead-run around the crew compartment and out on the left or right side-rear - maybe into the engine compartment and then out under one of those top-hatches and up to the frame? Routing Ideas?).

That Luftslit being used for the lead routing to that ant. pot makes for a nice visual detail add-on to most 38(t). It also does raise a question... we see many pics of German 38t) where that Luftslit has evidently been largely covered or hidden behind attached fender boxes... this would "jibe with" a positioning of that Fu 2 radio well away from it - where blocking the slit would not much affect any ventilation anyway. This is of personal build interest as I have done just that - blocked the slit with a fender box... but I'll still be able to wriggle the ant. lead out. Woo Hoo for getting that pot-lead detail!

Anyway - VERY interesting analysis, and I'll be taking at least some of it into account as I do my G-Befehls!

Cheers!

Bob

hi Bob

Thanks for the positive and encouraging reply - really appreciated it.

Sometimes this research stuff get a bit compilsive! - so I'm glad I'm not the only one who has a hint of OCD about them!
.
Sorry, no real ideas on the cabling - but what you describe sounds pretty plausible. THere seems to be so many things in this hobby where you can't get an exact answer - so, I think you have to come up with what's 'viable' based on whatever evidence you CAN find.

Anyways. good luck with you models - I know I had a great time with mine. I'm doing a series of Pz38 in Axis service - Germany, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary and Slovakia - so some in Czech green, Panzer grey and sand yellow - and lots of wazzy markings - GREAT!

kr
Trevor