The features team have been giving some thought to the DMoM layout, and the fact that the beginners very seldom enter enough entries into the DMoM in order to allow us to run a beginners class. We have considered various options in order to resolve this problem, and have opted to put an idea to the membership to see what you feel and think about a possible change to the DMoM.

The change we are considering making to the beginners section is for it to be run annually or bi-annually, this will give the beginners 6 or 12 months to enter their builds and that specific DMoM/s will be for beginners only. The advance section will be run on the other 11 or 10 months depending on how the members here feel about these possible changes. The beginners’ entries will be accepted at any time during the months between running the beginners DMoM competitions, and if this fails to obtain a reasonable number of entries we are considering dropping the beginners section and just running the advanced competition.

Please let us know your thoughts on this.

I see its been a struggle for the begginer category. But perhaps running it every other month? or quarterly? they seem to come in spurts.

I think you guys have a good idea.

How about starting out quarterly? Six months sounds like a long time for them to focus on the competition. If you aren't getting enough quarterly entries, then you can bump it up to six months.

I am really surprised the beginners aren't stepping up and entering more since they have their own class.

Hi Darren,

Out of curiosity how many beginner (armour) models are we seeing in the forums lately? Is the decline in DMOM entries similar to that posted in the forums?

If so then perhaps we, as a community, need to encourage more beginners to participate here in general. I know how overwhelming it can be to be new to the hobby or genre and amongst all these great modellers who encourage accuracy and still turn out awesome pieces.

Perhaps we need more AGE group builds, with prizes sponsored either officially or by staff as in the past, as opposed to a DMOM Beginners class?

Also, perhaps we need to revisit the definition of "beginner". Coincidentally I was looking at the Melbourne Expo 2009 rules last week, thinking I could enter the beginner or intermediate classes for Civil Vehicles, not having built one for 15 odd years. Their definition of a beginner is a person under the age of 14 (I think), an intermediate 14 - 18, and advanced over 18. My point is that perhaps we need to look at how these classes are defined by the likes of IPMS or APMS (?) and align ourselves to the generally accepted definition (please excuse my ignorance if you already have defined it this way).

Rudi

The total number of introductory entries over the whole of last year was 12, I see a lot of OOB builds which as such qualify as introductory models depending on the finishing methods used. Now I accept that not all of these builds are beginners builds but if we only attract 12 entries in a year it is not going to work on a monthly or quarterly time scale which is why we went for 6 to 12 months.

Guys,

I think every six months is a good idea.

I'm not sure that classing ability (beginner, intermediate, advanced) purely in terms of age is necessarily a good thing either.

For example: You get teenagers entering builds at shows (and indeed posting work up here) who are quite obviously "beginners" by any definition of the term.

However, there are also a kids of tender years who have such talent that they can - and sometimes do - inspire and teach guys 10, 20 or 30 years older (myself included) a thing or two.

I also think that Rudi may have a point in that the standard of work that guys post here (even just in the regular threads) is generally very high, and so "shyness" might come into it for some people: They maybe think that their own work just doesn't cut it alongside some to the stunning builds that guys bring to the table here.

- Steve

The definition we have been using to identify a beginners entry is a model that is an out of the box build, it is not loaded with AM items, and finishing is basic painting without the use of pigments and the like. So what we mean by this is a model that is one of your first/early efforts as opposed to someone like Bill Plunk entering an OOB build with a standard camo pattern, which would still most likely look better than my efforts.

Hi guys.
Im over forty i have bad eyes, big fingers and Have spent all of my life in the forces,i stopped modeling when i joined up at 15 and have just started up again lurning to relax can be a funny thing lol.
There are some great comments ref this problem,but i will say the problem could be with the beginners is there slightly put off with posting because they don't see there skill in there models that they see in the quality of the models posted by the older modelers on here.
At forty odd i am well behind on the skill level of the guys on here and would feel a bit of a let down if i posted them on here.and have ppl not post ref them or leave them tips on how to do better and help there skills grow.
As for the strate out of the box thing, well untill i get better that's were i'll stay until i have it all worked out lol.
Only my opinion guys hope i not upset any one with it.

Andrew your point is very valid however it is very rare for a member to just go knocking another members work, most people here will bend over backwards to try and help someone improve their build. The reason we started running an introductory level within the DMoM was to give the new and returning model builders a chance to win a prize for their efforts, and in doing so help build up their confidence.

I agree with that Darren i have not seen any putting down or knocking of ppl's work but when your young you dont always see that if your shy or have low self esteme,I have run site's on and of now for about 5 years and always find it hard work to get ppl involved in any way.I hope you decide on what is right for the site but once my skills are up i'll be putting one in for the The beginners even at my age lol.

Hi everyone, well personally ive always been a bit scared to put one of my models in because you see some of the builds here and they are so good and as im slighty disabled having crushed my hand a few years ago im still stuggling to get back into the swing of things.
Richard

This is the breakdown of entries for last year:

January
3 intermediate
11 advanced

February
2 intermediate
13 advanced

March
0 intermediate
16 advanced

April
3 intermediate
4 advanced

May
2 intermediate
4 advanced

June
0 intermediate
13 advanced

July
0 intermediate
10 advanced

August
0 intermediate
6 advanced

September
0 intermediate
13 advanced

October
2 intermediate
7 advanced

November
0 intermediate
11 advanced

December
0 intermediate
9 advanced

Over the course of the year we had 12 intermediate entries and 117 advanced, and that is why we have been looking at the DMoM and its participation level. Henk is also trying to find some more sponsors to broaden the appeal of entering your model, such as an award specifically for scratch built models.

On the beginners DMOM it would seem a lot of people get into the weathering trends very quickly. Maybe we should start a class ranking by models built. OOB, Some PE, some scratch, etc… and leave the weathering out of it. Or by time modeling or in the time they have modeled in their respective modeling groups

The Age semi-annual build would probably be a better idea. Restricting by actual age has it’s limitations in more ways then one as can be seen.

There is just so much you can count on people being honest about. I don’t believe this is happening but it is certainly possible.

Since they have these in each Kit-maker departments why not start a separate forum just for MOM, with subgroups for each department. That way we can get used to going to a specific place at a given time set up in a month and vote for each groups MOM.

Another idea would be making it more user friendly. I.E. open up galleries for each group and allow them to upload their own entries each month. At the end you can archive the photos for future reference or just delete them, move the winner to another gallery, “MOM Winner Gallery”, and open it back up for the next contest.

Like everything else it just depends a lot on the members of a community as this that will decide if something will work or not.

Bob

I have thought about entering for the DMOM but I haven't for a few reasons.
I am not a great modeller by any stretch of the imagination so I wouldn't consider entering into the advanced sectiion as I know the other entries will be far better.
Also I don't think I could enter the beginner section as I'm trying to improve my model making by using AM stuff and filters etc so disqualify myself that way.
So this leaves me in a middle limbo land.
One answer would be to have a normal section for people like me but how you could define normal and advanced I don't know?
The only thing I can think would be that the normal class would be open to all, but if you won it you could only then enter in the advance class after that?
David

We have thought about a separate area of the site where all competitions are hosted and voted on, and Jim S is looking into setting up just such an area however as with most things it takes time that is not always available to us. Dave you need to remember we are all over critical of our own work, and feel it is not up to the standards of others work.

I propose FOUR levels of competition: Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced, and Master. Winning in a given category automatically bumps all succeeding efforts into the next. Competitors start in the lowest category and work up. A competitor can request starting in a higher category, but not a lower one. Management can put a model in a higher category at their discretion. Beginner and Intermediate contests alternate months. Advanced goes off every month accept June and December. Master goes off in June and December. If a given contest does not have 5 or more models, it goes on hold until the next appropriate contest month. A model that wins at Advanced level automatically competes again in the next Master level contest.

Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
Beg --- Beg --- Beg --- Beg --- Beg --- Beg ---
--- Int --- Int --- Int --- Int --- Int --- Int
Adv Adv Adv Adv Adv --- Adv Adv Adv Adv Adv ---
--- --- --- --- --- Mas --- --- --- --- --- Mas

My distribution assumes a high number of Advanced modelers want to compete, thus they get a contest almost every month. Master modelers end up competing less often in a class by themselves. This system lets less experienced modelers have a shot at the lower levels and assumes it takes much longer to build a Master model.

Alternate system A: A modeler can only advance to Advanced level. Master is only open to models that won at Advanced level.

Alternate system B: There is only one Master contest each year, open to Advanced winners from the previous 11 months, to determine the best model of the year.

Alternate system C: Master level is open to winners from the immediately preceding Advanced contests AND new models by a previous Advanced contest winner (at the request of the modeler).

The following actions automatically move a model to the Intermediate category: competitor previously won at the Beginner level; use of 11 or more PE parts (many kits now come with some PE parts); use of after-market parts; airbrushed camouflage in two or more colors

The following actions automatically move a model to the Advanced category: competitor previously won at the Intermediate level; scratch building any complex structure; extensive conversion from the base kit

The following actions automatically move a model to the Master category: competitor previously won at the Advanced level

If management gets a flood of Beginner or Intermediate entries, simply adjust the ratio of contests to one another. In any case, only two contests go off each month.

So much for my nice table.

-Doug

Hi Darren,

Further my comments above:

Why not just simplify it: Run the DMOM monthly, one class - one size fits all.

Independently of DMOM run an AGE contest (with 2 or more classes) annually for all under 16's and other newcomers.

Rudi

I've been thinking about this too. I entered a build ,my first tank in twenty years, and 6th model since getting back into the hobby in the last year. I asked for it to got into the intro section but it had an AM zim set, some bits of pe, some scratch. Is that really intro? No probably not. Is it advanced? No definitely not. So it probably shouldn't win.

I agree with Tarok there should be an intro level for say for under 16s and modelers with less than 1 year experience to encourage development. Winning that disallows entry to it again just as now.

But for the main contest could there be scale classes?
If you don't get enough entries for a particular class in a month. Roll the entries over to the next month.

Just my thoughts on it.

Hi guy's,as a newbie to the site I dont feel I should have too much input on the subjsct as I am still finding my feet.I do have a query though and that is if you build one of Dragon's premium kits or one of their advanced kits with PE,turned barrel,goodies ect (which would be OOB)then what catagory would that fall into?

Cheers

Deano

Edit I feel a bit stupid now as Ive just realised what DMOM stands for duh?

I like the idea of going quarterly for a beginners level competition. Just because right now (even with a low number of entries) a contest once a year or every six months just seems so far apart. Hopefully more of our newer or less experienced modelers will share their opinions.

Matt

Hello,

here are some thoughts and ideas.

Before we think about active participation it seems to be necessary to improve the passive part of the DMoM - the modelers/members of this community.

Somehow amongst us is a low interest in the contest.

Why else there is such a sparse amount of votes?

And voting is much more easier and convenient than to build and present a model.

Some few clicks only, a fistful pics but nonetheless there are less votes in total than modelers visit this page within 30 minutes at a Sunday....

I think this is the first step we members and modelers - the Armoramans - by ourselves could do to encourage others to participate instead of rewarding their efforts with desinterest.


A solution could be a mixture of presentation, visualisation, penetration and convenience.


Here an idea.

Passive participation

1. With the beginning of DMoM all members receive automatically a newsletter with a link
straight to the gallery.

2. Then two further automatic mails follow during each the preselection and the voting period, simply to remind.
One at the middle of the period, the last one close to its end.

3. Though the pics are in the gallery, it could be useful to upload these pics again within the current DMoM thread. (But voting stays within the gallery).


Preselection of the categoy

Next step following is a preselection by the community before the voting by itself starts.

Within this preselection (which is organised and presented in the same way like the DMoM) the members vote for the category only the model has to compete.

After this preselection period of 7-10 days the voting period begins.


Though during this period a participation could be quite sparse you achieve at least two effects:

a) A result (no matter if 13 or 300 votes) about categorising model's level.
b) The community would have been confronted with the current contest by itself.


Active participation

One thing to motivate and encourage modeler's participation is to put a carrot under their nose.

I mean: The concrete prices and rewards have to be announced before - with pics!

Think of every other contest, especially sports: No one says "at the end of the tournament/play offs you win a(!) trophae", they say "you win this(!) trophae."

So it is worth to think about to ask DML for a kit contingent of two months to showcase them before the contest.


The DMoM-results should be presented more extended and should have the characteristic of an award ceremony.

An idea could be a banner right at the home page with the winners of the latest contest.

This banner is visible during the complete month - honour to whom honour is due.


Finally a schedule (as an example I chose June)

1. May 31st: Last day to send in the model

2. June 5th: Preselection by the community starts

a) DMoM icon appears at the start page (Prelection)
b) DMoM thread is posted consisting of
- uploaded pics of the models
- a link to gallery with the pics and the icon to preselect
c) Newsletters about beginning preselection period are sent to the members

3. June 10th: Reminders are sent to the members

4. June 13th: Final reminder is sent.

5. June 15th/16th: Preselection is closed.

6. June 16th - 19th: Results are published (thread, newsletter, gallery)

7. June 20th: Voting period starts (icon, thread, newsletter, gallery)

8. June 24th: First reminder is sent

9. June 26th: Final reminder

10. June 27th: Voting ends

11. July 1st: Winners are published (banner homepage, thread)

12. July 1st-31st: Winner's banner at the homepage.


Tjo, my two cents...

I agree, Marco, except I that the "preselection" period seems superfluous, if you know what I mean. I guess it seems to make the whole process a bit too complex, and that can be just as much a deterrent to voting as anything else.

Overall, though, excellent suggestions, especially the "Active Participation" section. More publicity is exactly what we need. As I've said before, besides for a link on the home page, the contest isn't really promoted much, and the threads announcing the winners and the opening of the voting period are deep in the forums, which you may not see if you don't visit often or only take an occasional cursory look. I know that for the longest time, I never used the forums, but read the feature articles and reviews, so I never know who won the contest.

We would do well to implement your suggestions.
_____

I would agree that a bi-annual beginners class would be a good idea. A quarterly would be better, but given the information Darren gave, we may not have the entries to support that.

Samuel

Hello Samuel,

I know what you mean with superfluous - a "slimming down" of the concept.

Otherwise a permanently fixed thread could be necessary only including a manual how to fight through the voting stages...

I am paying attention to this and will consider what is possible and what is not, as far as notifying every member with a blanket post, would that be considered SPAM E-mail?

Not by me unless you start trying to sell me double glazing or ask for my bank details so you can give me 3 million you have found in your dead uncles African bank account.