I have been trying oil dot filtering and cannot seem to get the hang of it. I seem to get long streaks of haze instead of color shift. Even after 24 hours of drying I can rub all of the color off with a q-tip, as if the paint has not even begun to dry.

I am using Reeves oil colors from a student starter kit along with Turpenoid for a thinner. I have been practicing with a black 1:48 scale locomotive. I am trying to get a slightly off black color showing both weathering and the effects of heat.

I place small dots on the subject then dip my spreading brush in the Turpenoid and then wipe it on a clean paper towel. Most of the Turpenoid comes off on the towel so the brush is only damp. I then drag it over the dots and spread the oil paint over the surface. This looks like a gloss coat at first with a little of the oil color still there.

After 24 hours there is a thin haze on the surface. When I try to rub the haze off most of the color comes off.

Any ideas what is going wrong?

James

It could be that the Turps you use are too strong, but what do i know? Ive never had success with this method, i just end up with stains all over the place.

Hi James, welcome to Armorama! It sounds like you are going about it the right way. Turpenoid is a perfect thinner to use. Are you not getting the look you want, or is the issue just that it rubs off 24 hours later? Depending on the temperature and humidity, oil paint can take days to a week or more to dry.

I am more worried about the "haze" that develops. That is what has had me wiping after only 24 hours. Maybe I will let the next set a bit longer. Some of the problem might be using the technique on black. It might look better on my Tiger I that I just finished painting.

I have been using the oils as a wash on some other model railroad stuff and have not seen this haze before so perhaps it is the contrast with the black.

I'll keep trying and may paint an old kit with the Tiger colors to practice on before attacking the actual model.

Thanks for the replies.

James

Absolutely, use an old junk kit to perfect every technique before you go at it on a current build!
If you are using too many light colors and diffusing it too much, it could dry as a milky haze across the entire surface.

hi james,
first of I should say that I'm a painter in RL and I use oil paints every day, went to one of those fancy art schools for four years and have been a professional artist for the past 10.
Part of the problem is the turpenoid, use oderless mineral spirits (OMS) instead. Turpenoid has additives to it that may contribute to this haze and do not facilitate the drying of the paint as much as OMS does. The more OMS you use the less the drying time, you can also use additives to shorten the drying time without thinning the paint so much, I would recommend galkyd from Gamblin, it is a think amber colored painting medium (don't worry it won't yellow the paint), say a ratio of 2-4 parts OMS to 1 part galkyd and if you want to make a filter with it, as much or as little paint as you need depending on the transparency. Also the paint you are using may not be up to snuff, I would recommend Windsor and Newton artist grade paints, they are the least expensive for the quality, no fillers, which is very important. Finally if you are still getting a haze, make sure the paint is dry and then spray it with some kind of clear coat (oil based), then it should disappear. Of course I would test this out on some scrap first till you get the mix ratios and the hang of working with the oils.
Oils do take a very long time to cure, straight from the tube longer than 6 months!
I have also heard people say that they use enamels for the oil dot method (enamels are basically just pre-thinned oils with lots of hardeners and driers in them) but I would experiment first before trying this method on an actual model, and I would imagine you would have to work on a relatively small area at a time.

hope this helps!!

Thanks, I was wondering if the paints might be an issue due to their cost (low). The first wash I used them for was more of an all over filter type wash. This was on a Nieuport and there were places where you could see the actual pigment after the wash. Almost like it was not ground very fine. In 1:48 it looked like dirt splatters that were a couple of mm in diameter. I will have to try the Winsor Newtons as I have a Hobby Lobby here in town and I can get them 40% off with the coupon the put out online.

I'll pick up some of the odorless mineral spirits also. I had seen Turpenoid mentioned a few times so I thought I was safe with that. Oh well, better to learn these things early.

Thanks again for the helpful comments,

James

make sure u apply a coat of gloss clear before using the oild. i had the same problem until someone corrected me

James-

Recommend your base coat have a clear coat applied (have had luck with Future and Gunze Flat Clear) that has dried all the way. When it gets time for the dots, I've wet the surface with odorless thinner first then applied the oil dots. Go back to the thinner, just getting the brush damp vice wet, and intermix the oils. Work in small areas, just keep in mind how many varying dots are applied, so you have a consistent color, vice a bunch of differing areas.

When the model is done, I've taken the airbrush and applied the odorless thinner (low pressure) to blend in the varying glossy areas, as there are some overlaps where the thinner/oil has appeared wet still. Once you've got the thinner applied, use just the air pressure itself to dry it a little quicker...seems to work out okay for me.

I also use the Windsor and Newton oils, a little tube should last a very long time, just keep them capped tight so they don't dry up!

Hope this helps! Cheers -
Tim

Ok, so it looks like I need to Future before I apply the oils. This might be my problem with my locomotive. It has a satin finish at best. I'll give the gloss a shot.

Thanks for all the help.]

James

James, did the WN oils fix your grainy issue? I am having the exact same problem with the exact same paints right now. They are junk, IMO.

James,

I'm no expert but this is what I do and it works for me:

After the vehicle has been painted and it has dried, I spray a couple of coats of Future / Kleer and leave it to dry overnight. I then place a few small dots of various colours of oil paint ( I only use cheap art shop ones) yellow, white, green, brown, grey, dark blue or black etc on to the model. I then take a largish brush and dip it in clean enamel thinners (I use Humbrol), wipe the excess thinner off on a paper towel, and "drag" the paint brush downwards. Clean the brush and re-apply more thinners. Keep repeating until the oil paints have started to look like dirt / rain streaks. Stop when you are satisfied with the look. If you make a mistake you can apply more thinners and remove all your oil paint and start again.
When you are happy put the model on one side and don't touch it for a week to allow the oil paint to dry.

Hope that helps

Andy

Hi guys,I know this is an old thread,but I think I understand it,but,

I am working on a JSU-152,I basecoated in Tamiya Acrylics,I plan to overcoat in Vallejo Acrylic Gloss Varnish.Is this an appropiate base to start oil dot filtering ? After the oil dots,I plan a burnt umber pin wash on details,after which I would apply a overcoat of Vallejo Acrylic Flat Varnish.Am i still on track ?How long do i wait to apply the flat overcoat ?

Thanks for any advice I can get on the oil dot filter method.

Tony,
You want to do the oil dot method on a flat coat so that you have a rough surface to drag the colors across.

ok Matt thanks

1) Paint and washes
2) Future + Future + Future +....
3) Oil dot
4) MM Flat

I use Windsor Oils (as they are cheap and I am only doing filters). I find that my technique produces more color modulation than the "rain effect".

I use turpentine (or boiled linseed oil, I forget) that is made by Windsor. It seems to do the trick. I put a lot of thick dots on.

I find a glossy surface is easier to work with. As far as the milky effect, maybe you are not being directional in your wiping? Also, try using Windsor thinners as their paints maybe sensitive to other thinners.




Hey!!! Once you get this effect down, it really looks nice.


GL!

Tony,

I apply my color modulation over flat paints or clear coats, like Matt.

One thing you might consider is what colors you're using. The purpose of the color modulation is to vary the underlying color in shade and tone. That is, for example, make a green color bluer, yellower, and darker and lighter. The modulation effect works like a transparent stain that tints and changes the underlying color.

For something like Jame's black test project for example, you might want to go with grays, blues, and browns. The blues and browns will have to be lightened, I think, to effect the strong underlying color. You're looking for darker areas (pure black), lighter areas (grays), "bluer-blacks" (grayish-blues), and "brownish-blacks" (siennas or umbers mixed with ochre to lighten them). Pure white over the black is possibly too strong a contrast (unless maybe used in very small amounts). This could be the source of your "hazy" look.

Another consideration is to keep the changes distinct from area to area. The changes should be gradual and blend together where they meet, but the differences in tone and shade should be visible. If you blend all the colors together uniformly all over the surface, you simply change the overall color uniformly. It's the differences that make the effect work.

Here's an example that I recently did. In the first picture, you can see how the different color oil paints change the basic OD green (SCC 15) color, but not in a uniform manner.

[See the post below - I used the wrong button to stick the link in here.]

This is only an intermediate step, though. The final weathering still has to be applied. This will tie everything together. Here's the same model, finished, from the other side:

[Again, see the post below for the picture. Sorry!]

I use ordinary mineral spirits for a thinner and Winsor & Newton and Grumbacher oils. I apply the paint dots, one color at a time, and blend each color out before doing the next color. I don't use so many dots that I cover the surface all over. There is a balance between how big the dots are and how close together they can be before all you have done is put an even coat of the color over the entire model. The bigger the dots, the farther apart they should be, but even small dots of oil paint will blend out over a very large area.

I don't find any need to gloss coat the surface first, going the same as Matt with a flat coat. However, after you have your oil dot modulation done, if you're going to apply a general wash (or a filter) thinned with mineral spirits, you might want to protect the color modulation with a clear coat (either flat or gloss) so that you don't blend it all away. Since I've started using color modulation techniques, though, I don't use genral, all-over washes any more. Pin washes don't have any detrimental effect on the color modulation.

(At least not on flat coats. Gloss coated surfaces might be "slicker" and not as "grabby" with the pigment so that other washes wash the oils off easier.)

Finally, as mentioned earlier by Matt and tskross, the oils take a few days, at least, to dry. If you're not agressive, you should be able to handle things the next day to continue weathering, but of all the oil colors, white seems to take the longest. (At least titanium white does for me. Maybe zinc oxide white dries faster, but I can't say about it.) So, if you're using a lot of white on your black test project, your paint could take a week or so to fully dry.

HTH,
Mike

Dang it!

Here're the two pictures:





I used the wrong button below, yet again!

Sorry,
Mike

Thanks guys,this is really comprehensive info.I appreciate your help.

Greetings,

I just started experimenting with filters myself. I was wondering if the effect is different when you apply the filters directly over the base (flat) coat as opposed to an application over a gloss coat? It seems that when you apply the filter directly over the paint you are directly changing the paint itself. A gloss coat creats a barrier over the base coat and you are not altering the paint. Does this make sense what I am trying to say?

Anyway, I was just looking for some thoughts about this question.

Thanks,

Cbreeze

Hey Cbreeze,

As I don't use the intermediate gloss coat myself, I can't say for sure, but I would imagine the difference is one of degree or intensity more than effect.

By this, I mean that over a flat coat, the filter (either applied as a wash or as blended out oil paint) creates a more intense "staining" or changing of the underlying color's hue or tone than the same filter applied over a gloss coat.

On a flat coat, you control the intensity by the amount of the "modulation" or "filter" color you apply and how much you blend it out. This varies its transparency over the underlying color.

Over a gloss coat, I would think that you control the intensity less with the amount of "modulation" or "filter" you use and more with the blending out (which in theory, should be easier). This could, depending on how you work and your "style," result in more control (easier blending and a slower build-up of the effect) but require additional coats or more paint to achieve the same final result.

Using both methods, though, you're changing the hue and tone of the underlying color to achieve variations in it in order to break-up the monotone look and induce a more "candid" appearance. Whether the filter is directly on the underlying color paint or on the gloss barrier, the intended effect is the same.

I think really, only someone with experience using both mthods could say for sure. As a practical matter, I think if you chose one method or the other (again depending on you painting style) and get familar with it, you should be good to go.

Kinda of a vague reply, I know, but there are so many possible variations that I believe the end results depend more on the modeler than on the technique.

HTH,
Mike

Hey guys,I picked up the new AK Interactive dvd.It covers filters,washes.streaking,and the oil dot method.It's pretty good.

Mike,

Thanks for weighing in on this. Your response is what I was thinking. I guess the only way to find out for sure is do a test piece.

Thanks again,

cbreeze