This is a report i''ve been sitting on since the Nuremberg Toy Fair, but, potentially quite a big one - Vallejo have launched a range of Pigments. The full report can be seen:

Link to Item

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!

Jim do you have any idea of current availability or cost?

Interesting choice of colours. Will be interested to see how they compare to the established brands.

Jon

Very nice! Always looking to try a new product, hope to get some soon!

Clearly taking on MIG with both feet in the pool. MIG's sets are grouped similarly. I would say that the deciding points will be:

Value: cheaper per or more for your money?

Color Range: MIG has pretty much covered the palatte, though he doesn't currently have green or ochre, handling both in the 502 Abteilung oils.

Hi

I would have thought this an ideal addition to their range, and a natural progression of their resources, they are after all dealing with pigments for their paints and they already have other diorama items in their range.

Also, as is the case around here, many model shops stock the Vallejo Paints so I guess they would be ordering from the same supplier/distributor.

If they are as good as their paints then they'll have a good selling product but I guess it's going to come down to price, certainly in the current financial climate.

As Darren asked, do we know price and availability yet?

Alan

Well, first all, I must explain that this fact is the end reason of Mig Jimenez-Vallejo colaboration. Since many years ago, I was helping and supporting all Vallejo products and promoting them in all my articles. Also, I help them to test and developed many products. Our relaction ship was excellent until (seems) that crisis is affecting them and they must find alternative products to their acrylic ranges. Was easy to use our experience in pigments and our promotion during years to do something similar, even the look and set names.

One more tamie, it is another company who try to copy and follow other paths, but they are not offering any new product.

I must explain that their pigments is not made by them, and is not the Vallejo quality. Their pigments is produced and manufactured by GPP , the french brand who produce natural earth powders for railroad stuff and dioramas. But these pigments is not MIXES for tanks, but is just natural pigments with ART colors. Is not the same products than ours, and of course, don't expect the same results.

I feel really tired of copycats, and specially bad actions like this coming from people who was friends until few months ago.
But I am not worry because the quality and the deep investigation that we make with each color cannot be copied by others.

Sorry for this post, but it was necesary.
Ahh, and it was not a surprise for us. I know that since last June 2008.

Regards

Mig Jimenez

it is an interesting development and One would suggest a quite possible expansion of their range, but I would really need to see the results of using them before really making nay comment.

I struggled to produce the fading effect using oils until I tried to do them with the MIG range, I can only assume that the pigment grain is different in the oils. I would expect that possibly the same with these new pigments, but then as I have said the proof will be in the pudding.

Otherwise I feel price will also be a big factor in a lot of modellers choice

cheers

Keith

For me it would be much more useful to see a range of ink washes like the Citadel brand but with a bit more transparency. As for using pigments I have always used ground pastel chalks because I `ve never needed such large quantities as I´m no great fan of lots of weathering. That said I do have just one pot of Mig pigment that will probably last me forever & I can´t complain about what it cost because of the time it will save me to make such a quantity of a colour that always comes in handy. The cat is amongst the pigeons,it seems.

I hate to pick nits, but did you guys know that these are commercially available artist's pigment bases? They even have the same nomenclature. If you go to a decent art supply shop you can get a sizeable bottle of any of these for 5-20$ depending on the rarity of the pigment. That sounds like a lot, but you get a bottle that is four times the size of a typical model pigment.

Something tells me a can of worms is having the lid removed here and I shouldn't get involved by posting... but listening to the voices in my head was never my strong point.

Sure you can get pigments from art shops, the modellers were doing it long before Mig Productions came onto the market. Here is a link to a store selling you at least a lifetimes supply quite easily

http://www.sinopia.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=2

This is a known fact to those who have been modelling, not just Armour, for years.

Mig Productions didn't invent the use, but did see the business potential of refining the product, making it more user friendly for the purpose we use it for, mixing it into recognisable terms so if you wanted a certain effect most of the guess work was taken out of the process. There is no denying the opportunity that Mig saw and developed and all credit to him, not only for the product range but it's quality.

What does sadden me is remarks that come about in such threads as this. Other companies producing items similar to yours, in direct competition is just part of the day to day business world, the rough and tumble of commerce and you either accept that sooner or later if you have a successful idea somebody will want to emulate that idea, that success, same for cars, cameras, phones and any other consumer product out in the marketplace.

To openly criticise or pass opinions on products, even before they have been released and tested in the marketplace, despite having possible knowledge of their make up is unprofessional in business terms, however rightly you are in feeling aggrieved at another companies actions.

If the product does prove to be substandard and not as good as another this will come out through experience anyway, and to that end your better product will be seen to gain value and status without the need to make detrimental remarks about the other companies product range.

This post is written with respect for those concerned but feel these type of remarks do not further your cause, and in some peoples eyes will do the reverse.

Respectfully

Alan

Well, I won't comment on the Vallejo ones - never having tried them but in the case of the Mig ones, let me lay this particular myth to rest once and for all.

1) The size of the grains in Mig's (compared to the Artist's Pigments) are much much smaller - this is due to a process which the blended pigments go thru (similar to that in a coffee grinder) so NO, they aren't Artist's Pigments. They might start off as that but by the time they are packaged...

2) You cannot unless you're prepared to spend a LOT of time, effort and money (to get the consistency and shades you want) going to get anything close to what you get with commercially produced weathering pigments.

Frankly, i'm getting a bit tired of this. It gets explained at least once a fortnight and every few days someone trots out the same line - Commercially prepared pigments are TOTALLY different from Artist's. Point made?

Hello

You are bringing up a common subject regarding the differences between our pigments and art store pigments. Our pigments are not the same as the ones found in an art store. First of all we specify our pigments to be ground much finer. You cannot find this grain size for pigments purchased in art stores. This is also the primary reason that large bottles of pigments are cheaper in art stores.

We also invest a lot of time making the best mixes for the modelling market. I use these products on my own models that I publish. Over a few days we designed and tested each of the colours on our own models with various finishes. We can give you a guarantee that our colours will work perfect over your model. The same cannot be guarantied for art store bought pigments and you never know if the result will work well with your subject or not. This is especially because there are types of art pigments with high or low intensities that can create undesirable effects. Our pigments are tested and used by the best modellers around the world.

As MIG said in a another posting why not after paying 20 to 40 and sometimes even 50 dollars for a plastic kit also pay 20 more for a set of pigments containing properly mixed colours that can be used for the rest of your life?

Of course I work for MIG Productions. Part of my job is mixing and testing new pigment colours and my opinion probably isn’t too valid. I do know that we take a lot of pride in what we do.

Please let me know your thoughts. I will be happy to discus this further.

Sincerely
Adam Wilder
MIG Productions Staff

I don't have a dog in this fight, so my comments are strictly personal observations.

I have never had a problem with MIG pigments, oils, washes or fixers. If something isn't broken, you don't fix it.

I like the pre-mixed color palette the same as I prefer pre-mixed color paints. I could save lots of money buying a raft of generic acrylics and mixing up my own color palette, but I don't have the talent (or time).

I like the pigment sets, with little or no overlap. I would like to see some additional filters and pigments (WWII Russian green filter, Dunkelgelb fading powder are two that spring to mind), and perhaps some filters for aircraft colors (can't quite figure out RLM purple grays!).

The results of using MIG pigs are self-evident in the compliments my builds receive, which are less to do with my talent than working off the efforts of Mig's excellent book, observing what others with real talent here have done, and dumb luck.

"Even the blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut."

I have tried to use artist pigments to achieve the same results as you get from using products from companies such as MIG, I found that while acceptable for use on groundwork the results on the vehicle were not as pleasing. For that reason alone I have no choice but to echo Jim Rae’s comments that the pigments supplied by a manufacturer do give the end user a better finish and more pleasing effect (in this case MIG).

When it comes to which manufacturers product I use it is going to come down to a combination of factors, which for me is cost + quantity + quality + ease of use = what kind of finish I can achieve. I will pay more for a product that gives me the finish I am looking for with ease, as opposed to a cheap product that gives me an OK finish but that is a PITA to use, providing that product is not over priced.

I am by no means tied to MIG or anyone else for that matter, I would happily buy a selection of Warpig’s pigments and try them (I have not found a walk in and buy source as yet) and I will try the product from Vallejo if they are easily available. My pennies will end up going to whoever’s product is competitively priced when compared to quantity and quality, and that I find gives me the most pleasing finish from there use.

Mig while I understand your comments I am afraid I cannot agree with you. Competition keeps all companies involved to continually reassess their product and improve it, while at the same time making sure it remains competitively priced. I am by no means suggesting you did this in the past, but as you had the monopoly you could have if you had wished to. Competition is good for the end user. That said your product is well known, and is widely used to great effect so any competitor will have to do something different to adversely effect you.