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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
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reqeust for help with new zealand tanks
merkavafan
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Northern Territory, Australia
Joined: March 22, 2009
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Posted: Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 10:27 PM UTC
G'day from across the river David ,
what can I say ?? WOW !!!WOW !! WOW!! Those pictures are really brilliant !! Words fail me & that does not happen often . To say I'm really pleased with those pictures is an under-statement !! .
Many ,many thanks again David . I owe you a favor now
Cheers ,
Andy
P.S. I'll probably have more questions soon , hope you don't mind?
TANKS ROCK


merkavafan
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Posted: Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 11:53 AM UTC
G'day from across the creek again David,
Yep ; you guessed it .... more questions . Hope you don't mind ? What were the personal weapons for crewmen of the M41A1 , scorpion & ferret and in what years were those said personal weapons in service ? and could you recommend and good manufacturer of those weapons in 1:35 scale?
Another question ; ( more of a professional curiosity/interest type question ) what were the above vehicles like to maintain ?
I've been away a lot lately on exercises and I'm off to the U.S. shortly for another exercise so if I don't reply straight away you'll know why.
I look forward to hearing from you again , your help/advice /knowledge is always appreciated . Once again , the photo's you've posted have been Fantastic reference so many thanks for that again!!!
Cheers,
Andy
TANKS ROCK!!!!
D_J_W
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Hamilton, New Zealand
Joined: December 30, 2005
KitMaker: 436 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 04, 2009 - 10:03 PM UTC
Greetings and salutations Andrew, from the farside of the ditch;

So the easy one first

Quoted Text

Hope you don't mind ?


Not at all, I will just have to dust off the old grey matter


Quoted Text

What were the personal weapons for crewmen of the M41A1 , scorpion & ferret and in what years were those said personal weapons in service ?


Firstly for M41 and Ferret:
Up until 1970 (approx)
Browning HP 9mm, pistol

Sterling L2A1 SMG


from early 70s to end of service
M16A1

and occasionally
L1A1 SLR


Scorpion:
1982 to 1988
Sterling L2A1 SMG, M16s were to big to fit into a Scorpion

1988 to end of service
Steyr AUG Carbine (350mm barrel)




Quoted Text

and could you recommend and good manufacturer of those weapons in 1:35 scale?


:| good question
First the easy one, M16 – Tamiya, Dragon etc most are ok unless you are into rivet counting
L1A1 SLR – the only one I can think of is Firestorm
Steyr – Mouse House Enterprises were talking about producing it 1/35, but I don't know if they ever did.
Sterling SMG – the only one that I know of was put out by Italeri as part of Modern light Weapon Set long out of production.


Quoted Text

Another question ; ( more of a professional curiosity/interest type question ) what were the above vehicles like to maintain ?


Now casting my mind (what there is left of it) back some 30 or so years
From a crew point of view, M41s and Ferrets were no great problems, apart from the fact that they were getting near the end of their service life, so spares were a bit of a problem.
The Scorpion was not suited to New Zealand conditions and as a result we had a tendency to over service the vehicles, also the local terrain took a heavy toll on the vehicles suspension. So at times it seemed that we spent more time in vehicle maintenance than anything else.

cheers
David
zapper
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Skåne, Sweden
Joined: October 18, 2005
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Posted: Monday, November 09, 2009 - 05:37 AM UTC
Hi agin guys

Sorry to posting some negative vibes here but I just found out something that might pull the plug on my NZ tank project forever. I relized that there are early and late production turrets (not M41 vs. M41A1 turrets) and that all pictures I've seen of Kiwi M41's have the early style. All the kits on the market (AFV Club, Skybow and Tamiya) have the late.

The difference can be seen in these two Prime Portal albums (welds, much rounder shape on lower half etc.).

Early (NZ):
http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/azrael_raven/m41_walker_bulldog/

Late:
http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/bill_spidle/m41/


Also the photos in the links posted earlier in this thread show the differences. Not sure if I will find the courage to have a go with the putty.

And now for the million dollar question: anybody seen the late turret type on Kiwi M41's?

/E
D_J_W
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Hamilton, New Zealand
Joined: December 30, 2005
KitMaker: 436 posts
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Posted: Monday, November 09, 2009 - 07:32 AM UTC
Hi Erik

You can save your money, all NZ vehicles were M41A1. The conversion should not be that hard, just slightly round off where the two turret halfs join, redo the weld and relocate the commander's machine gun.

Drawings of the early and late types can be found at hobbyhavoc

cheers
David
zapper
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Posted: Monday, November 09, 2009 - 08:38 AM UTC
I guess you're right David. Just got tired on another have-to-do-thing on this supposed to be OOTB project . Really there's no way back. I've already got the head light mountings removed from the front hull.

BTW, except from rounding the edges one have to reshape the bottom part of the turret. There are a quit prominent "cheek" around the turret.

Cheers mate,
/E
merkavafan
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Northern Territory, Australia
Joined: March 22, 2009
KitMaker: 59 posts
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Posted: Saturday, November 14, 2009 - 10:40 PM UTC
G'day David & Erik & all ,
well , as you can see I'm back from the U.S. & yes I had a absolute ball working with Marine corps Tankies!!! . It was with great interest that I read your comments guys ,me personally , I'm going to to do what David suggested & round off the turret halves and redo the welds . Shouldn't be hard really !!
The local model store finally got some primer in and I also got the paints I think I need for both the M41 & Scorpion . The colours I picked up are as follows humbol enamels matt 62 , matt 121 , matt 81 and a flat black .
I'm still scrounging around for more reference pics as one can never have enough reference material ( that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it ) but it's hard work at the moment.
What do you think of the colours anyway ? any advice or tips ?
Looking forward to hearing from you guys
Cheers,
Andy
P.S. TANKS ROCK!!!!
D_J_W
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Hamilton, New Zealand
Joined: December 30, 2005
KitMaker: 436 posts
Armorama: 367 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 09:50 PM UTC
Hi Andy,
glad to see you made it back. Now for the fun. Nothing is ever simple when it comes to New Zealand armour. The Humbrol colours are a good match for original colours, although they could do with just a touch of light grey, as the paint faded fairly quickly. But having said that, the paint came from local commercial sources and there were three different suppliers over the years. The original colours were introduce in 1978 and lasted until the early 1980s, with a second batch of colours coming into use in the early 1980s with a third batch coming into use in the late 80s/early 90s. Now for a picture, to save a futher 915 words.


The M41s were only painted with the original and maybe the second batch of colours, as they were retired from service in 1983. As for the Scorpions they were second and third batch of colours.

I trust I have not put you off painting them in the NZ MEDRC scheme

cheers
David
merkavafan
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Northern Territory, Australia
Joined: March 22, 2009
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Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 - 10:34 PM UTC
G'day David ,
sorry about the delay in replying , work has been extremely busy and I'm about to go away again very shortly for a course . As you said : Nothing is simple when it comes to New Zealand armour and Yes I'd agree with you but don't worry , you haven't put me off painting my Scorpion & M41 in NZ MEDRC cam , all you've done is raised the bar (made it more interesting & challenging ). I've still to get a few more bits and pieces together yet for both vehicles.
By the way , once again many thanks for help mate!!
Cheers,
Andy
P.S. TANKS ROCK!!!!
BSHEVLIN
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Northern Territory, Australia
Joined: August 20, 2009
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Posted: Friday, November 20, 2009 - 09:30 PM UTC
im looking forward to seeing the progress dutchy
might catch up over xmas holidays as i will be back
merkavafan
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Northern Territory, Australia
Joined: March 22, 2009
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Posted: Monday, November 23, 2009 - 08:14 PM UTC
G'day Brenton ,
welcome back !! sorry I've not replied earlier but work has been fairly hectic ( some things never change but that's life I guess ) . I'm off on another course tomorrow so the progress pics are a while off yet , but I' m hoping to pick up some bits & pieces for both the Scorpion & M41 while I'm in Melbourne .
David ; a question I keep meaning to ask but always forget ... the M41 in the pictures you so kindly posted ; was that the tank you served on ??? just curious.
Take care guys,
Cheers,
Andy
PS TANKS ROCK!!!!
D_J_W
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Hamilton, New Zealand
Joined: December 30, 2005
KitMaker: 436 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 06:55 AM UTC
Hi Andy

Quoted Text

a question I keep meaning to ask but always forget ... the M41 in the pictures you so kindly posted ; was that the tank you served on ??? just curious.



When I was doing my time in the bowels of the M41, they were green, either olive drab or deep bronze green or a combination of both.


I can recall one tank that had a deep bronze green turret and a olive drab hull, just try getting a model of that pass the judges in a competition

cheers
David
merkavafan
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Northern Territory, Australia
Joined: March 22, 2009
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Posted: Thursday, December 17, 2009 - 01:31 PM UTC
G'day again David ,
First off ; To yourself & all on the forum ; A very merry christmas & an even better new year!!
As you can guess I'm back from my course . Thanks for answering my previous question & you guessed it I have a couple more
1) I was lucky enough to get some very good close up photos of the kiwi M41( Bertie , NZ30542 ) at the RAAC Tank Museum Puckapunyal whilst on course including a couple of interior shots . The interior colour appeared to be a very pale lime green ; is this the correct colour or is this another dodgey touch up job ?
2) Another question which I hope you might be able to answer : What other vehicles were the Scorpion , M-41 and Ferret trialled against before they were selected for service with the RNZAC ?
By the way , now the holidays are here I've even managed to start construction on my M-41 ( I'm the worlds slowest builder ever I think ). Nothing too advanced I'm afraid , just the hull & a few other details so far!!
Have a good one mate & look forward to hearing from you .
Cheers ,
Andy

P.S. TANKS ROCK!!!!
D_J_W
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Hamilton, New Zealand
Joined: December 30, 2005
KitMaker: 436 posts
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Posted: Friday, January 15, 2010 - 09:18 AM UTC
Hi Andy
Sorry about the delay in getting back to you, life has been a bit hectic over the last few weeks but things are getting back to normal. So on with the important things.


Quoted Text

The interior colour appeared to be a very pale lime green ; is this the correct colour or is this another dodgey touch up job ?


pale lime green does seem a bit dodgey. Originally the M41's interior colour was white and over the years alternated between white and silver grey until the M113 entered service with the NZ Army, early 1970's, the interior of the M41's was changed to the same as the M113's as the M41's were rebuilt.

In this part of the world the colour was called Light Brunswick Green. Either Tamiya XF21 Sky or Vallejo 885 Pastel Green seem to about the best colour match. Humbrol 23 Duck Egg Blue, which is the equalivent to Tamiya XF21, is to blue.



Quoted Text

What other vehicles were the Scorpion, M-41 and Ferret trialled against before they were selected for service with the RNZAC ?


Trial, what's a trial they were “selected” to meet our needs. The only vehicle we trialled was a MRV no 15156 as a possible replacement for the Scorpion. It was found not to be suitable for our conditions

cheers
David
merkavafan
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Northern Territory, Australia
Joined: March 22, 2009
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Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 04:10 PM UTC
G'day David ,
Hope life's' treating you well!!?? I only just got back off my holidays recently so hence the delay in responding , so my apologies for that. Thanks for your help once again ,I decided to go with the Tamiya XF-21 Sky to do the interior of my M41A1 , I decided also to do a partial interior after a bit of thought . I still haven't worked out how to post pictures from my photobucket page to this web site but if you (or others for that matter ) would like to see them they're under andyholland_photos or search for kiwi M41A1 photos. Any thoughts or comments or advice will be welcome. There's not too much to see but it's a start at least.
Cheers ,
Andy
P.S. TANKS ROCK!!!!

D_J_W
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Hamilton, New Zealand
Joined: December 30, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, January 21, 2010 - 09:14 PM UTC
Hi Andy,
welcome back If you need any info on the interior I have a copy of the TM that may be of some help The interior could be a bit of a colourful place with the most of it being “what ever you want to call it” green and some of the US components being white (fire control box, lights etc) and the radios, antenna tuning units etc being deep bronze green. Just on the side, during one period in the gunners' seat I did a research on the turret wall and got through 14 layers of paint. The top 4 or 5 where green and the remainder alternated silver grey/white down to bare metal.

Now posting pictures, made simple, I hope so
Firstly when I post an image into a forum post, I have both the forum page and the Photobucket album page open. [Note I'm using Firefox.]


1. Once in the Photobucket album you want, move the cursor thing over the photo you want to post and a pop up menu will appear under image you want.


2. Left click on the text in the box next to IMG Code the text in the box should now be highlighted in blue. Now copy the text, Ctrl C

If you are using Windows Explorer once you click on the text, it is copied to the clipboard.


Now just go back to the forum post:


and paste copied text into the post


and bingo
I hope that clears things up.

Cheers
David
afvaficionado
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New Zealand
Joined: February 16, 2010
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Posted: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 02:28 PM UTC
Hi David
I've been following this with interest, as I'm converting a Heng Long 1/16th RC M41A3 to an NZ M41A1 - see my posts at Hobby Havoc.
I also created a Topic - Kiwi M41 Characteristics - http://www.hobbyhavoc.com/forum/index.php?topic=925.0
- that might interest you & others.
I see you've already spotted my photo's of NZ 30543 at the Hastings parade in 1982. I also took some of NZ30549 - Rex Gibson's tank, at the Men of Steel event in Hamilton late last year - also posted at HobbyHavoc.

Mal.
zapper
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Skåne, Sweden
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Posted: Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 12:03 AM UTC
Hi Malcom,

Not sure if I should curse you or thank you . This sure adds a lot on the to-do list for my NZ Bulldog project
But in the end: cutting plastic, filling and sanding is what this hobby is all about so a big THANK YOU for the link and for all research and photos you've posted there.
Great stuff!

Cheers,
/E
afvaficionado
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New Zealand
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Posted: Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 07:25 AM UTC
Hi Eric
Ha ha. Welcome to my world! Every time I look at the photo's & compare them to the model, I find something else to do. The scope of the work keeps getting bigger, the sub assemblies develop into projects of their own. It's worse in the larger scale, cos you can both see & do the extra detail. Then of course there is the suspension upgrades, the electronic upgrades........ad infinateum.

Mal
afvaficionado
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New Zealand
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KitMaker: 160 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 11:23 AM UTC
Hi David
I've run into a little problem. I want to create a working tow pintle. Can you give me any pointers, as to how it works?
I know the lower jaw moves, but not how, nor how it locks in place?
I've tried the Tank Manual, but that doesn't go into much detail on the operation.

Help!
Mal
Dutchy3RTR
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Joined: June 28, 2009
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Posted: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 11:58 AM UTC
Hi Andrew, hope you don't mind me passing through but I thought I'd point out that Accurate Armour do tow cables and slave leads for the CVR(T) series which would save you scratching them:

http://www.accurate-armour.com/showaaproducts.cfm?category=4&subcategory=105

HTH
D_J_W
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Hamilton, New Zealand
Joined: December 30, 2005
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Posted: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 03:40 PM UTC
Hi Mal,

you had me worried, until I read a few posts down and saw that you are working in 1/16th


Quoted Text

Can you give me any pointers, as to how it works?
I know the lower jaw moves, but not how, nor how it locks in place?





The jaw is held in place by a locking leaver, located under the towing pintle. When engaged the locking leaver lies flush with the main body of the pintle, with just the end visible under the pintle. There is a cut out section in the lower jaw that engages the locking leaver. But since one picture is worth one thousand words, here are the equivalent of two thousand from Prime Portal. The pics are of a M75 APC (same towing pintle), the pintle is upside down and the lock is dis-engaged.
http://data4.primeportal.net/apc/david_lueck/m75_apc/images/m75_apc_10_of_33.jpg

http://data4.primeportal.net/apc/david_lueck/m75_apc/images/m75_apc_12_of_33.jpg

I hope this is of some help.

cheers
David
afvaficionado
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New Zealand
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KitMaker: 160 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 04:48 PM UTC
Hi David
Wow that quiok. Excellent, now I just have to build the thing.
Had a look at the Accurate armour site, but that appears to be 1/35th, their 1/15th CVR(T), doesn't seem to have accessories? Would like the crew of the early Scimitar though.

Thanks
Mal
afvaficionado
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New Zealand
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Posted: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 - 08:46 AM UTC
If any one is working on New Zealand M41's, you might find this of use & interest - http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-tanks-369/11636232-nz-30549-early-construction-m41s.html -

And no, still haven't built the brass towing pintle

Mal
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