Thanks in Advance.
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Sherman Ic Hybrid
tracklink2
Joined: March 07, 2007
KitMaker: 131 posts
Armorama: 120 posts
Posted: Monday, May 04, 2009 - 08:31 AM UTC
Were their any Ic Hybrid fireflys with XXX corps. in operation market-garden? I've done some research but haven't really found a definite answer. Can anyone else out there led a hand?
Thanks in Advance.
Thanks in Advance.
stufer
Joined: May 25, 2003
KitMaker: 416 posts
Armorama: 342 posts
Posted: Monday, May 04, 2009 - 09:17 AM UTC
hi cody
as far as i'm aware i think it was Sherman Vc's but I'd have to go back to the superb 'After the Battle' Operation Market Garden books and double check.Although in Mark Hayward's 'Sherman Firefly' book there is a picture of a Vc being followed by a Ic hybrid in Belgium in September 1944 so never say never!
I'll have a look and post again unless someone with a better memory answers first!
as far as i'm aware i think it was Sherman Vc's but I'd have to go back to the superb 'After the Battle' Operation Market Garden books and double check.Although in Mark Hayward's 'Sherman Firefly' book there is a picture of a Vc being followed by a Ic hybrid in Belgium in September 1944 so never say never!
I'll have a look and post again unless someone with a better memory answers first!
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Armorama: 11,675 posts
Posted: Monday, May 04, 2009 - 10:16 AM UTC
Hi Cody,
This what you looking for?
Unfortunately I can't remember where I came across the picture. 2nd Irish Guards certainly had some M4 Firefly Ic as I have 4 listed late 44, I think these should be listed as M4 Firefly VCs!
There is certainly one listed apr 45
M4A1, Sherman Firefly IC Hybrid
T263686
Contract S/M. 1046
22 Apr 45 - Elsdorf, Germany. Veh hit several times, but only one pen, into engine compartment. Veh burnt out but crew all unhurt - Veh also noted as mined around same period. RH suspension unit damaged. Track broken & floor plates buckled - Wright & Harkness RAC Cas Study, Jan 1946
Courtsey of R de Normann
I am sure I have seen another picture of a 2nd IG Hybrid just before Market Garden, so I do think it possible. I will see if I can find a picture.
Al
This what you looking for?
Unfortunately I can't remember where I came across the picture. 2nd Irish Guards certainly had some M4 Firefly Ic as I have 4 listed late 44, I think these should be listed as M4 Firefly VCs!
There is certainly one listed apr 45
M4A1, Sherman Firefly IC Hybrid
T263686
Contract S/M. 1046
22 Apr 45 - Elsdorf, Germany. Veh hit several times, but only one pen, into engine compartment. Veh burnt out but crew all unhurt - Veh also noted as mined around same period. RH suspension unit damaged. Track broken & floor plates buckled - Wright & Harkness RAC Cas Study, Jan 1946
Courtsey of R de Normann
I am sure I have seen another picture of a 2nd IG Hybrid just before Market Garden, so I do think it possible. I will see if I can find a picture.
Al
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Monday, May 04, 2009 - 11:22 AM UTC
I can remember a picture of a burned out Sherman 1 some where on the road later in the fighting. I sold the book several years ago so can't give any more information than that.
ALBOWIE
Joined: February 28, 2006
KitMaker: 1,605 posts
Armorama: 1,565 posts
Posted: Monday, May 04, 2009 - 11:45 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Cody,
This what you looking for?
Unfortunately I can't remember where I came across the picture. 2nd Irish Guards certainly had some M4 Firefly Ic as I have 4 listed late 44, I think these should be listed as M4 Firefly VCs!
There is certainly one listed apr 45
M4A1, Sherman Firefly IC Hybrid
T263686
Contract S/M. 1046
22 Apr 45 - Elsdorf, Germany. Veh hit several times, but only one pen, into engine compartment. Veh burnt out but crew all unhurt - Veh also noted as mined around same period. RH suspension unit damaged. Track broken & floor plates buckled - Wright & Harkness RAC Cas Study, Jan 1946
Courtsey of R de Normann
I am sure I have seen another picture of a 2nd IG Hybrid just before Market Garden, so I do think it possible. I will see if I can find a picture.
Al
Al, that is a Coldstream Guards vehicle depicted during the Battle of the bulge at Namur. Lt Boscawen of Armoured Guardsmen fame is in the shot as it was one of his troop vehicles. Theere are pictures of GAD Hybrid Fireflies during the great "swan" (Breakout from Failaise) so it is likely that a few were in GAD for Market Garden. A lot of 1c Hybrids would have been issued post Normandy so it is highly likely that quite a few served in Market Garden within XXX corps.
Cheers
Al
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Armorama: 11,675 posts
Posted: Monday, May 04, 2009 - 11:51 AM UTC
Thanks Al,
Al
Al
tracklink2
Joined: March 07, 2007
KitMaker: 131 posts
Armorama: 120 posts
Posted: Monday, May 04, 2009 - 03:52 PM UTC
I found this pic, but I can't Id the unit and I'm not sure if it is of any use to me. Thanks for the help thus far. I at least know now that if I keep looking I should find something. tracklink2
Joined: March 07, 2007
KitMaker: 131 posts
Armorama: 120 posts
Posted: Monday, May 04, 2009 - 04:25 PM UTC
I have found another pic and I want your expert opinions
The third tank looks like a hybrid hull, as it has the 90 degree corner at the edge of the deck but it appears to have a curved/sloping front plate, but is it a Firefly? the one in front of it appears to be a firefly but it's a standard hull.
I also found a vid, newsreel vid At the end of the newsreel their is a firefly then a universal carrier of some kind, then their is another firefly, the hull front is sloped and the hatches look like those present on a hybrid
what do you all think?
The third tank looks like a hybrid hull, as it has the 90 degree corner at the edge of the deck but it appears to have a curved/sloping front plate, but is it a Firefly? the one in front of it appears to be a firefly but it's a standard hull.
I also found a vid, newsreel vid At the end of the newsreel their is a firefly then a universal carrier of some kind, then their is another firefly, the hull front is sloped and the hatches look like those present on a hybrid
what do you all think?
ALBOWIE
Joined: February 28, 2006
KitMaker: 1,605 posts
Armorama: 1,565 posts
Posted: Monday, May 04, 2009 - 04:48 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I have found another pic and I want your expert opinions
The third tank looks like a hybrid hull, as it has the 90 degree corner at the edge of the deck but it appears to have a curved/sloping front plate, but is it a Firefly? the one in front of it appears to be a firefly but it's a standard hull.
I also found a vid, newsreel vid At the end of the newsreel their is a firefly then a universal carrier of some kind, then their is another firefly, the hull front is sloped and the hatches look like those present on a hybrid
what do you all think?
These appear to be 4AB (3 CLY) vehicles and the third vehicle from the right is a composite but a 75mm version as the stowage box is too close to the turret and no loaders hatch is visible. The vehicle in front of it is a Vc though.
Cheers
Al
ALBOWIE
Joined: February 28, 2006
KitMaker: 1,605 posts
Armorama: 1,565 posts
Posted: Monday, May 04, 2009 - 10:08 PM UTC
Have a look in Concord 7062- British Sherman Tanks which has a pic of two irish Guards Hybrids taken in late Aug 44 (page 53) so they had them in GAD prior to Market garden. 33 AB also had at least one prior to market Garden with a picture in tanks in Normandy although they were not XXX Corps assets.
The Armoured units to look for in Market garden that had Firelflies are GAD, 11AD,7AD plus 4 & 8 AB.
Cheers
Al
The Armoured units to look for in Market garden that had Firelflies are GAD, 11AD,7AD plus 4 & 8 AB.
Cheers
Al
AlanL
Joined: August 12, 2005
KitMaker: 14,499 posts
Armorama: 11,675 posts
Posted: Monday, May 04, 2009 - 10:29 PM UTC
Thanks Al,I knew I had seen them somewhere, that's the pic I was thinking off.
Al
tracklink2
Joined: March 07, 2007
KitMaker: 131 posts
Armorama: 120 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 - 05:50 AM UTC
I have located the picture, thank you all so much for your help,
now the only question that remains is how the Irish Guards marked their vehicles, but that shouldn't be too difficult.
now the only question that remains is how the Irish Guards marked their vehicles, but that shouldn't be too difficult.
stufer
Joined: May 25, 2003
KitMaker: 416 posts
Armorama: 342 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 - 08:42 AM UTC
hi cody!
yep,went back to my 'Firefly' book,the picture i was referring to is believed to be of the Guards Armoured Brigade,taken by Sgt Laing on Sept 1st 1944,a Vc followed by a Ic Hybrid passing the Australian War Memorial at Villers-Bretonneux The photo has the ref IWM BU 271 but i can't find it on the Imperial War museum's online photo catalogue!
so,yeah,go with your Irish Guards Ic Hybrid and happy building!
yep,went back to my 'Firefly' book,the picture i was referring to is believed to be of the Guards Armoured Brigade,taken by Sgt Laing on Sept 1st 1944,a Vc followed by a Ic Hybrid passing the Australian War Memorial at Villers-Bretonneux The photo has the ref IWM BU 271 but i can't find it on the Imperial War museum's online photo catalogue!
so,yeah,go with your Irish Guards Ic Hybrid and happy building!
tracklink2
Joined: March 07, 2007
KitMaker: 131 posts
Armorama: 120 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 - 03:11 AM UTC
Steve is this the photo ?
I did some searching in the catalogue, i just typed in BU in the photo search area and looked through them and I think I found it.
I did some searching in the catalogue, i just typed in BU in the photo search area and looked through them and I think I found it.
stufer
Joined: May 25, 2003
KitMaker: 416 posts
Armorama: 342 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 - 09:04 AM UTC
D'oh!
yes,that's the one!
dontcha just love the internet?
yes,that's the one!
dontcha just love the internet?
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