Hello everyone,

I have a question (I know, hard to believe ), attached is a picture of 3 M2A2's, an M1A1 and a M113 taken on a bridge near (or in) Baghdad. My question is what is the M113 used for, is it a standard APC, ambulance, or some sort of Command and Control varient. Having the 50cal on it kind of leads me away from the ambulance idea, but I am still not sure. Also, if it is anything other than the normal APC, does anyone have any pictures of the interior?

Thanks so much for your time,
Chris

http://groups.msn.com/armorama/chrisalbumofun.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=10107

Well, seems suspicious, but it looks like a standard M113 to me...not a M577, not a M1064 Mortar Maggot Mover, not a Medical vehicle (no red crosses at least not seen under all the stowage), not a Smoke generator...maybe a engineer's vehicle?

Looks weird to see a plain vanilla M113 with the varsity crowd, so to speak. Maybe a repatriated Iraqi M113? #:-)

Jacques,

Hey, I hadn't thought of that one! An engineer's vehicle. It would make sense having it there, with the damaged bridge and all. But it doesn't seem to have much in the way of engineer type stowage. Actually it kind of looks like an Israeli M113, were they there and nobody ever said anything?!?! :-)

Thanks for the ideas,
-Chris

Chris,
Thanks for posting the picture. It is a keeper.
As for the M113. Could it just be part of an activated reserve unit? I know some of our North Dakota folks took M113's with them.

From the ID numbers on the Bradleys, thtose are vehicles out of 3-7 CAV, 3ID. It may be hard to believe but M-113's are still all over the active force. They are stil used as maintenance and engineer vehicles as well as ambulances and mortar carriers and command vehicles. Just got back from Iraq myself a couple of weeks ago, 1-39 FA (MLRS), 3ID. The storage racks that make it look like an Isreali AFV were common over there. Due to the amountof junk we carry with us, all sorts of vehicles sprouted racks. Abrams, Bradleys, even HMMWVs had racks added to the top or sides. We should have learned this from our Isreali brothers long ago.

Thanks everyone for your responses.
I am thinking of turning my small M2A2/Hmmwv into something similar to this scene. I will most likely make the M113 into an engineer vehicle. One more funny thing (to me anyway, am only now getting up to date on modern American armor), is that the M113 does not have the rear external fuel tanks. I thought that this was an upgrade to the A2 or A3 version, or did the military find out that the external tanks were a bad idea?

Thanks again,
Chris

And Gino, welcome home!

I am not sure about the A3...Sabot? but the onlyh A2's I know of with the Rear fuel tanks were the M981 FistV and the M901 ITOW.

I was talking to a friend today about this picture and he mentioned that the M113 may have been an AF FAC vehicle. I hadn't thought about it, but it makes sense,

Hey now that is cool, never thought about a FAC vehicle!

Anyone know if they are normal M113's with extra radios and map tables? Gonna have to scour the internet for this one.

Pondering this one...
Chris

The FIST-V is used for artillery direction. I don't think they have a seperate one for FAC. The FIST-V's have a turret on top that is designed to look like a TOW missle launcher. It really houses optics and a laser designator. The quickest way to tell them apart from an actual TOW carrier is that they usually have a ton of antennas on them. They may not even use them anymore. I have been out of the service for awhile. I'm sure most everyone here knew this already. I am bored and just feel like writing while the glue is drying.

Man Steve, I am jealous. My modeling bench is in the basement, too damp for the computers. (Yes, we have 2 and there are only three of us in the house.) I wish I could post here while the glue was drying. And, no I did not know that. Thanks for the info.

Shaun

FIST-V is being replaced by the BFIST, which is a Bradley with the artillery laser designator inside. Our battalion in Germany had a separate M113A3 for the ALO or Air Liason Officer. It had extra radios that were different from our normal SINCGARS radios and more antennas. I recall one looking more like a small stove pipe than an antenna. When I was the HHC XO, we had to maintain the vehicle and the blue suiters just showed up for major exercises. Normal complement was one Air Force captain and a pair of NCOs. We provided the driver. Never interacted with those guys then.

In 1st Cav, our ALO used a regular M998 4 door HMMWV with the "station wagon" canvas cover. The entire rear area had a radio configuration that I was unfamiliar with. When I was the BMO (Battalion Maintenance Officer) the Air Force enlistedmen took the HMMWV out for a joyride and rolled it. I remember having to do a 15-6 investigation on the accident and cost of repairs. We had to strip out all the radios and mount them into another M998 until that truck was repaired (took months).

When we deployed, I shared a hootch(sp?) with the ALO and his two airmen. He was a Phantom pilot by trade. The airmen weren't the same guys who had rolled the M998. He probably would have preferred an M113A3.

Cool tidbits everyone, that's one of the things that is so great about this site. Such a wide range of people here that have a wealth of knowledge and are will to share it with us! Sorry I only really know about Public Safety related matters, so if anyone has any Police, Fire, EMS or Emergency Management questions, I'm your guy! (++)

But I digress. I don't see that many antennas (except for the really long one with the small flag on it, wonder what it says?). I tried blowing it up, but even after cleaning it up, it was still too blurry to see much more detail.

Thanks again everyone for your time and knowledge,
Chris

Honest guess on it is a engineer vehicle.

As for the FISTV - BFIST it is four antenna's...one for the Company, one for Divarty, one for Battalion, and one for Brigade. Fun fun fun. I always wondered why we were listed as the #1 target on the battlefield.

Yeah, I think that I am going to make it into the engineer vehicle.

What type of stuff would they carry, I figure it would be their smaller, lighter items. I have the tow-bar from the Legends M1 kit, would that be something that they would have stowed? Or maybe tied to the roof or something?

Thanks,
Chris

Here is another picture of the same scene taken a little earlier or later, not sure which.



Shaun

P.S. I think it is later because the white vehicle that can be seen in the first picture got whaled on and is burning in the second...

Shawn,

Cool thanks!

I think that you are right about the time frame, the white car is burning really good in your picture. Wonder what happened to all the smoke from the explosion in the right-side background in mine, doesn't seem like it will all go away that fast.

Anyway, definitely have to add this one to my collection.
-Chris

Check the flag out on the antenna. It's an engineer vehicle.

You will have to tell me what the flag is, because I can't tell at all. You may be right about it being an engineer track.

I am not so sure, because there is a lot of stuff that should be on it that isn't, if they are engineers. Engineers are terrific pack rats, and have several large boxes of gear they have to carry with them. Looking back at pics of ODS, IFOR, and KFOR engineers you can see this. I would expect at least one footlocker sized box, and several rolls of concertina. I was under the impression that most Active enginner units were completly converted to A3s, too.

I was leaning toward a maintenance vehicle, or a vehicle from a FSB or something similar. Equipment modernization tends to come quite late to the odds and ends in units otherwise equipped with other stuff. The handfull of maintenance M113s in the different echelons supporting a heavy division don't get a lot of emphasis at budget time, and even less so in prepo equipment sites. They tend to range pretty far forward in action, so the location is not very surprising.

Just my own take. I may be wrong!

The flag is is red, obviously, with the engineer castle,white, in the middle of the field. I saw allot of these the last two weeks while I was in the field. BTW I've also seen subdued ones, tan flag with a black castle.

You would also expect to seen a trailer being pulled by the 113 but you got to remember this was probably a deliberate attack to capture this bridge. So I would expect to see an engineer asset with the infantry to deal with any possible demo charges.

It'd look something like this without the numbers and letters for the unit ID,






If this 113 came out of preposition stocks, there's no telling what you might get.

Yes, it looks like we have our answer. Pretty cool looking flag too! Thanks again for all of your responses, has helped me out a ton.

Now another add-on question...does anyone know if the Academy M113 kits have an possible (open or closed) rear ramp door? I would like to show some of the interior, but not too much

Thanks again for the help gang,
Chris

I seem to remember that the Academy M113A2 has a seperate crew door in the ramp, but I would have to go dig to be sure. If I can get to it, I will.

Steve, I bow to your judgement. Your point about prepo equipment is true...you never know what you will get, regardless of what you are usually assigned at home!

Arengca,

If you get a chance to take a look at the Academy M113 kit that would be great!

Thanks again,
Chris

Yes, the Academy M113A2 has a separate crew access door in the ramp.