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REVIEW
Master Box German Watchtower
c5flies
Joined: October 21, 2007
KitMaker: 3,684 posts
Armorama: 2,938 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 02:55 PM UTC
Andy Renshaw provides an In-Box Review of a German WWII Watchtower which includes four figures, by Master Box LTD in 1/35 scale.
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If you have comments or questions please post them here.
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If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
youngc
Joined: June 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,166 posts
Armorama: 1,080 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 04:17 PM UTC
Thanks for the review Andy. That is a shame about the woodgrain... that said, I haven't seen any convincing wood in plastic to date.
Chas
Chas
dispatcher
Joined: November 04, 2007
KitMaker: 396 posts
Armorama: 325 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 05:06 PM UTC
Andy, thanks for the review. I wondered about the many possabilities this kit has. Looks like it has many uses. I was thinking it would make a great addition to a rail diorama.
joe
joe
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 10:50 PM UTC
Apart from the wood-grain 'issue' (Something that Masterbox HAVE done in other sets before), i'm a little confused exactly why the Rating on this set was so low?
Also:
You say they're not up to current standards, but then you say you'd give them an 8/10 rating? This, i'm sorry to say has me equally confused.
I'm not trying to say how to rate a set, that's YOUR decision as the Reviewer, but there do seem to be some inconsistancies?
Also:
Quoted Text
Detail has better relief than what I’ve seen on previous Master Box releases, and overall sculpting is quite good. Also, the lower section of the blouse is separate, again adding to the realistic look to the figures.
Overall, there are still the large mold lines to deal with, but the equipment all appears to fit well during a test fit. Along with the standard bread bag, gas mask canister, canteen, and ammo pouches, you also get a flashlight.
Faces and weapons are sculpted quite well and once cleaned up will look great under a coat of paint. On the figures, I would give a rating of 8 out of 10, as they are not up to current molding standards, but the poses and details are very attractive.
You say they're not up to current standards, but then you say you'd give them an 8/10 rating? This, i'm sorry to say has me equally confused.
I'm not trying to say how to rate a set, that's YOUR decision as the Reviewer, but there do seem to be some inconsistancies?
gremlinz
Joined: February 07, 2009
KitMaker: 795 posts
Armorama: 743 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 11:14 PM UTC
I just got this one a couple of weeks ago and I quite like it.
I don't have a problem with the woodgrain as I've always felt it's often overdone anyway. Even RS timber doesn't have mighty great grooves in it. Woodgrain tends to be there because of variations in the timber rings resulting in variation in colours, not because there are grooves between each ring. So different timbers have different grains and trees grown somewhere cold are going to have very light, very fine variations as opposed to something like a pine grown somewhere temperate.
So I've always figured it was better to paint a grain the colour you want anyway.
I don't have a problem with the woodgrain as I've always felt it's often overdone anyway. Even RS timber doesn't have mighty great grooves in it. Woodgrain tends to be there because of variations in the timber rings resulting in variation in colours, not because there are grooves between each ring. So different timbers have different grains and trees grown somewhere cold are going to have very light, very fine variations as opposed to something like a pine grown somewhere temperate.
So I've always figured it was better to paint a grain the colour you want anyway.
youngc
Joined: June 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,166 posts
Armorama: 1,080 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 12:18 AM UTC
Woodgrain can be painted on plastic model accessories such as chairs, desks, bookshelves etc. because in real life they are smooth due to the stain, lacquer, varnish process. Same goes for wooden stocks of rifles (which are always cast smooth for model kits).
For things like wooden fences, pylons, trench timbering... and watchtowers, the plastic needs to be textured! In life, these wooden constructions are not lacquered and kept indoors. They are constantly exposed to sun, rain, wind, snow, rotting, drying out etc.
The way to texture plastic wood is not necessarily to scribe big lines down it. Sand with different grades of paper to get a rough texture. Since the wood used in these watchtowers was probably new and treated... there wouldn't have be too much rotting, flaking going on.
There are plenty of people in this diorama forum with tips on how to achieve an aged/weathered wood effect a lot better than mine. However, most would advocate the use of real wood (bass, balsa, cedar) for this purpose.
Chas
For things like wooden fences, pylons, trench timbering... and watchtowers, the plastic needs to be textured! In life, these wooden constructions are not lacquered and kept indoors. They are constantly exposed to sun, rain, wind, snow, rotting, drying out etc.
The way to texture plastic wood is not necessarily to scribe big lines down it. Sand with different grades of paper to get a rough texture. Since the wood used in these watchtowers was probably new and treated... there wouldn't have be too much rotting, flaking going on.
There are plenty of people in this diorama forum with tips on how to achieve an aged/weathered wood effect a lot better than mine. However, most would advocate the use of real wood (bass, balsa, cedar) for this purpose.
Chas
lespauljames
Joined: January 06, 2007
KitMaker: 3,661 posts
Armorama: 2,764 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 12:26 AM UTC
best woodgrain i have seen is from tristar.
shame about the grain on this kit, but to be honest, its not the end of the world
shame about the grain on this kit, but to be honest, its not the end of the world
skyhawk
Joined: June 03, 2003
KitMaker: 1,095 posts
Armorama: 743 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 01:45 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Apart from the wood-grain 'issue' (Something that Masterbox HAVE done in other sets before), i'm a little confused exactly why the Rating on this set was so low? ...
You say they're not up to current standards, but then you say you'd give them an 8/10 rating? This, i'm sorry to say has me equally confused.
I'm not trying to say how to rate a set, that's YOUR decision as the Reviewer, but there do seem to be some inconsistancies?
Jim, sorry , i guess i should have been a bit clearer....maybe i can edit the text and have James update the review...
8/10 is the following....the poses and overall fit is very good. I really like the poses that MB has been comming out with..much more realistic, and life like for a "in the moment" diorama. Unlike some other "leading" companies we know who insist on mostly doing calender poses with barely enough interaction to use them together, MB figures tend to all work very well and capture the feel of the moment. In this set, the cold weather guys are great...sholders slumped in, hand in pocket, the other lighting a cigarette, colars up...fabulous! However, MB molding is not up to say, Dragon...so I couldnt give them a 9 or 10 because the molding is more like old esci figures...but the poses surpass some sets we have seen from Dragon (in my opinion). thus the 8/10 on the figures..
As for the overall rating, the lack of any effort to make the watchtower parts even look like wood just set me off. Yes, in "scale" we wouldnt see deep qouges in the wood, however there are lots of other ways to replicate wood in plastic (a gander at some plastic model railroad buildings will show). Having to paint on woodgrain, or use sandpaper/ razor saws to go over the 40or 50 surfaces (each post is 4 surfaces, each panel has at least 2, plus the supporting structure with 3 each part) is, in my opinion, nuts to have to do on a $30 watchtower kit.
Its just my opinion.....If there had been some effort on MB part to make the wood look like wood, I would have given this whole set a 85 and up (still a lot of mold seams and e-pin marks to clean).
skyhawk
Joined: June 03, 2003
KitMaker: 1,095 posts
Armorama: 743 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 01:48 AM UTC
"shame about the grain on this kit, but to be honest, its not the end of the world"
no its not....and it will still make a nice watchtower. Its just a pieve of mine, and probally comes from being in the model railroad community as well. also $30 warrents a bit more effort on the tower....4 figures would be worth ~10-12 dollars, that means the watchtower should show at least as much effort as the figures, and even a little more (16-20 bucks of effort).
no its not....and it will still make a nice watchtower. Its just a pieve of mine, and probally comes from being in the model railroad community as well. also $30 warrents a bit more effort on the tower....4 figures would be worth ~10-12 dollars, that means the watchtower should show at least as much effort as the figures, and even a little more (16-20 bucks of effort).
skyhawk
Joined: June 03, 2003
KitMaker: 1,095 posts
Armorama: 743 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 02:00 AM UTC
yeah, exactly....and that old dragon set with the two german sentrys with dogs would be perfect walking by. Or maybe the edge of a POW camp....an interesting twist could be to use MB german prisoners and have them being marched into the gates of one of thier own camps by russians.
Quoted Text
Andy, thanks for the review. I wondered about the many possabilities this kit has. Looks like it has many uses. I was thinking it would make a great addition to a rail diorama.
joe
CReading
#001
Joined: February 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,726 posts
Armorama: 892 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 02:36 AM UTC
I think I would approach the wood grain issue here the same way I paint gun stocks. Base coat in a light tan and use oils (burnt sienna?) to add the grain. The color possibilities are endless depending on how old or weathered you want the wood.
If you really don't like the idea of plastic, you have a fine template there to make one from bass wood.
I really don't see the 'wood grain' as an issue since this is such an esoteric subject to begin with. I think the concept is very cool.
Thanks for the review, I must not have been paying attention as this is the first time I've seen this kit!
Cheers,
Charles
If you really don't like the idea of plastic, you have a fine template there to make one from bass wood.
I really don't see the 'wood grain' as an issue since this is such an esoteric subject to begin with. I think the concept is very cool.
Thanks for the review, I must not have been paying attention as this is the first time I've seen this kit!
Cheers,
Charles
bill_c
Campaigns AdministratorJoined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 10,553 posts
Armorama: 8,109 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 04:21 AM UTC
I think Andy's right to point out the lack of grain and punish MB for it, since as he says, it's an expensive kit (I have seen MB kits start out high and then drop like a stone in price-- look at their motorcycle kit, for example, especially after Lion Roar brought out their far superior ones). The OOB modeler might not have the skills or time to add their own wood grain, so at least a subtle sense of it would be appropriate. Especially given weathering of wood in the elements, you're going to get some variation. Even a few knotholes, for heaven's sake!
viper29_ca
Joined: October 18, 2002
KitMaker: 2,247 posts
Armorama: 1,138 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 05:21 AM UTC
For the most part, any woodgrain I have seen done in plastic at 1/35 scale.....if it was blown up to 1:1 scale, the grain would end up being inches wide. Don't know about the rest of you, but not even Pine has the wide of a grain to the wood.
Even painting it on, sometimes the grain ends up being bigger than it should be. But it is probably the best we can do at scale.
As far as the wood being rough cut or not. Even at 1/35 scale....are you really going to see it? Maybe rough up the edges and faces with a little sandpaper, but in this scale, you aren't going to see much of it.
As far as price goes, I have some here at my shop selling for $27CDN.....considering that the figures would probably be $12-$15CDN alone, another $10-$12 for the tower and accessories I don't think is asking for alot.
As far as the MB and Lion Roar Motorcycles go......not sure how you can compare them. Yeah sure, the Lion Roar ones are probably alot more detailed, PE spokes and all, but at $45-$60CDN each, when you can get the MB one with the 3 figures $22.50CDN. Sounds like a steal of a deal to me!
Even painting it on, sometimes the grain ends up being bigger than it should be. But it is probably the best we can do at scale.
As far as the wood being rough cut or not. Even at 1/35 scale....are you really going to see it? Maybe rough up the edges and faces with a little sandpaper, but in this scale, you aren't going to see much of it.
Quoted Text
I think Andy's right to point out the lack of grain and punish MB for it, since as he says, it's an expensive kit (I have seen MB kits start out high and then drop like a stone in price-- look at their motorcycle kit, for example, especially after Lion Roar brought out their far superior ones). The OOB modeler might not have the skills or time to add their own wood grain, so at least a subtle sense of it would be appropriate. Especially given weathering of wood in the elements, you're going to get some variation. Even a few knotholes, for heaven's sake!
As far as price goes, I have some here at my shop selling for $27CDN.....considering that the figures would probably be $12-$15CDN alone, another $10-$12 for the tower and accessories I don't think is asking for alot.
As far as the MB and Lion Roar Motorcycles go......not sure how you can compare them. Yeah sure, the Lion Roar ones are probably alot more detailed, PE spokes and all, but at $45-$60CDN each, when you can get the MB one with the 3 figures $22.50CDN. Sounds like a steal of a deal to me!
bill_c
Campaigns AdministratorJoined: January 09, 2008
KitMaker: 10,553 posts
Armorama: 8,109 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 07:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
As far as price goes, I have some here at my shop selling for $27CDN.....considering that the figures would probably be $12-$15CDN alone, another $10-$12 for the tower and accessories I don't think is asking for alot.
As far as the MB and Lion Roar Motorcycles go......not sure how you can compare them. Yeah sure, the Lion Roar ones are probably alot more detailed, PE spokes and all, but at $45-$60CDN each, when you can get the MB one with the 3 figures $22.50CDN. Sounds like a steal of a deal to me!
I can't comment on your shop prices, but the MB unidentified bike (a BMW) is $19 from Luckymodel (just the bike, no figures), while the Lion Roar Zuendapp with sidecar (which I did a build review of) is $24 at Luckymodel. The prices are relative, not a reflection on yours, BTW.
Seems to me the MB is overpriced for what you get (all plastic vs. extensive PE). For the PE-phobes in the hobby, the MB is a better bet, since there are no plastic alternatives in the LR set. But in terms of relative "value for money," it's clear to me which is the better buy.
viper29_ca
Joined: October 18, 2002
KitMaker: 2,247 posts
Armorama: 1,138 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 04:45 PM UTC
I am just going by the prices from my suppliers.
MB being produced in the Ukraine, I would suspect isn't that much different in price if bought in Hong Kong, Canada, US. The price for the MB BMW bike (just the bike) is about the same as I would sell it here. They have a new one out now though with 3 figures (one taking a leak), for $22-$23.
Now Lion Roar, being produced there in Hong Kong, or somewhere else in China, only natural that someone like Hobby Easy or Lucky Model could offer it for much cheaper than what it can be had for here in North America! No different than the prices on any Asia made models. I would suspect that MB kits are pretty cheap in Ukraine and Russia as well.
MB being produced in the Ukraine, I would suspect isn't that much different in price if bought in Hong Kong, Canada, US. The price for the MB BMW bike (just the bike) is about the same as I would sell it here. They have a new one out now though with 3 figures (one taking a leak), for $22-$23.
Now Lion Roar, being produced there in Hong Kong, or somewhere else in China, only natural that someone like Hobby Easy or Lucky Model could offer it for much cheaper than what it can be had for here in North America! No different than the prices on any Asia made models. I would suspect that MB kits are pretty cheap in Ukraine and Russia as well.
Finch
Joined: August 03, 2005
KitMaker: 411 posts
Armorama: 273 posts
Posted: Friday, June 19, 2009 - 10:43 AM UTC
Archer fine transfers makes wood grain decals. I haven't tried it on this kit yet (since I haven't yet bought it) but I bet it would look pretty good and its a lot easier than trying to convincingly scribe grain into that many pieces.
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