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Яusso-Soviэt Forum: WWII Soviet Armor
For discussions related to WW2 era Soviet armor.
Tamiya T-34/76
SKiernan
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Dordogne, France
Joined: March 11, 2006
KitMaker: 87 posts
Armorama: 80 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 01:11 PM UTC
Finished this for the IPMS Region 10.

Did not place, competition was tough

It is the Tamiya T-34 on a Miniart Base with Miniart and Masterbox figures

Steve


Belt_Fed
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: February 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,325 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 01:38 PM UTC
A shame it did not place, it looks really good. Some more "walk around" pics please?
PBR_Streetgang
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California, United States
Joined: February 10, 2008
KitMaker: 62 posts
Armorama: 48 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 03:37 PM UTC
Steve,

It's a beauty! I have that figure set, also.

Well, try the next contest. But we love it here on the forum!

Regards,

Bill B.
dsfraser
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 01, 2007
KitMaker: 172 posts
Armorama: 168 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 10:51 PM UTC
I'm not sure why you comment on whether it placed.

From one photo, and forty years modelling, I can say:

It is a nicely finished model, cleanly built with good representation of colour and weathering.

Tamiya T-34 grossly inaccurate, widely-known for many year, DML obvious and available better choice. Questionable research, confirmed by inaccurate supplementary armour and inscription (markings for 130 Tank Brigade, Southern Front, April 1942; should be STZ production fom January 1942 series). Tamiya kit as presented more typical of later 1942-43 Zavod No.112, no attempt to model STZ.

The figures are good, at least, reserve further comment for clearer photos, particularly uniform details and facial expressions.

Dirama is excellent. Good composition, well posed, has drama, Very wll done. Full marks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There you have it. You got murdered in the footnotes.

A very picky judge with expert knowledge has just trashed you model. You are at a Regional Convention, and you're competing against the best around. Judges sometimes look for straws to grasp, trying to pick between two models. You have made it easy for them.

If competing is important to you, the first thing to address is research. You chose the wrong kit. Accuracy counts, and DML has a better kit.

You didn't know about the markings. You picked them because you liked them. I also made decals. Every set of markings has a story, because every set of decals comes from a photograph. Find the photo. I can list several books where you will see it (they are Russian, like the T-34).

You didn't know about the front armour, so you didn't fix it. There were several different patterns, unique to different factories. You believe the manufacturer, and this one looks like none of them.

If you have the photo of this tank, you will see it was green and brown. It is a rather well-known unit with several tanks wearing different inscriptions in the same style, photographed after delivery from STZ in March or April 1942. They were all destroyed in fighting around Voronezh and re-equipped with the next (fourth) version of the STZ T-34 with late style STZ turret and mantlet, without inscriptions but still carrying the tactical marking Л2-КС and a small red star. It's quite an interesting photo, one of several from the brigade that year. It was destroyed again in August and not remustered.

I know lots about the T-34, and T-34 kits, and a little bit about this unit. I am not trying to show off - it's just coincidence I know this stuff, without looking it up, because T-34s and Soviet armour are my specialty as a modeller and I'm building another tank from this unit right now. And I have often been a judge, your worst enemy.

I am being hard on you, I know, but you asked. And frankly, from what I see, you should know. Overall, it's very good, even excellent, but lack of background knowledge affected your choices, fundamental flaw, and you are dead in the water.

You have talent and skill. You have an eye for composition and drama so you are an artist. With practice, patent determination and a good library you can build a model that can win nationally, IF YOU WANT.

I don't believe in contests. (I got censored!) like me pick apart every model, crushing everybody's ego, and at the end of the day hardly anybody goes home happy. There can only be so many winners. I don't go there anymore.

They destroy the joy, too, because you start building to meet other peoples' expectations, and you never can. You always seek a higher standard, and you can never reach it. Soon or later, you either beat it or it beats you. Contests. Competition. A slippery slope in this art form.

I hope my comments are useful. They are meant to help.

Regards
Scott Fraser
PantherF
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Indiana, United States
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 11:38 PM UTC
I did not know they would judge against you if the model kit itself is inaccurate?

Finch
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New York, United States
Joined: August 03, 2005
KitMaker: 411 posts
Armorama: 273 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 11:47 PM UTC
Did you enter this as a diorama? If so what is the story and time period?
SKiernan
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Dordogne, France
Joined: March 11, 2006
KitMaker: 87 posts
Armorama: 80 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 05:46 AM UTC
Scott

Thank you for feedback, you are right on all counts. I really enjoy modelling Soviet Armor and have reasonable references but generally use them to get the right wheels with the right turret.

I like to build for contests because it gives me a goal to shoot for. I used to have a high expextation of placing but now it is mainly to see old friends and look at others work. The region 10 had some incredible work and was inspired to do better.

Thanks again
Steve
dsfraser
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 01, 2007
KitMaker: 172 posts
Armorama: 168 posts
Posted: Friday, June 19, 2009 - 10:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I did not know they would judge against you if the model kit itself is inaccurate?



Judges often have to pick the tiniest of nits.

Accuracy is one of the main criteria in many contests, certainly a major IPMS or AMPS meet.

The presumption is that the modeller will know this, and know to be selective in choosing the most accurate and/or best kit for his subject.

The expectation, I believe, is that the modeller, knowing the flaws of a kit (and every kit has them) will make an effort to reduce them, at least, and better yet to eliminate errors and approach 100% accuracy.

I think this is reasonable. By now, there are good drawings of practically every vehicle out there, and much of that information is available on the WWW. Likewise, there are reviews all over, and while many are useless "I looked in the box" comments, PMMS is on of many places where kits are properly critiqued. All the information is there to be used. The onus is on the modeller to use it.

Regards
dsfraser
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: October 01, 2007
KitMaker: 172 posts
Armorama: 168 posts
Posted: Friday, June 19, 2009 - 10:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Scott

Thank you for feedback, you are right on all counts. I really enjoy modelling Soviet Armor and have reasonable references but generally use them to get the right wheels with the right turret.




Whew! I'm glad you're not insulted or discouraged. There has been as much revealed about the T-34 in the last five years as was learned in the fifty years prevous. Very little of that new information has made its way into English.

When Zaloga was writing about T-34s, and this Tamiya kit was released, there were supposedly four distinct versions of 76mm T-34 characterized. Today we know there were at least eight different versions of the flat-turret T-34-76, as well as at least four major types of hexagonal turrets without including the ones with a cupola. Not four types, but twelve to fifteen. I read Russian, I read lots, and I get all the new books. There is a new T-34 book now every three or four months, and it's hard to stay current these days.


Quoted Text


I like to build for contests because it gives me a goal to shoot for. I used to have a high expectation of placing but now it is mainly to see old friends and look at others work. The region 10 had some incredible work and was inspired to do better.

Thanks again
Steve



Sounds like you know what contests are for, and have learned the folly of getting caught up in winning. I still like to go and see a hall full of well-built models, but for me, they're there to be admired, not judged.

Cheers
 _GOTOTOP