I have a question for the experts out there.
I am thinking of building the Tamiya T-34/76 and have it entering Berlin.
Would that be correct for that time frame?
Or how about the KV-1C? I am considering that one as well.
Thanks,
HARV
Hosted by Jacques Duquette
T-34/76 question.
Posted: Monday, July 13, 2009 - 01:56 AM UTC
MCR
Arizona, United States
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Posted: Monday, July 13, 2009 - 05:17 AM UTC
Which Tamiya kit, the Model '42 or the "Model '43"?
The Model '42, not so much though examples survived to the end of the war they would have been uncommon.
For the "Model '43", yes, common as ants at a picnic.
The Tamiya kits are pretty well outdated but I have seen many, many built up into really fantastic models.
As for a KV-1 late in the war, very unlikely. I seem to recall someone mentioning a photo of one in Berlin but I've never seen it that I can recall.
Good luck with your project!
Mark
The Model '42, not so much though examples survived to the end of the war they would have been uncommon.
For the "Model '43", yes, common as ants at a picnic.
The Tamiya kits are pretty well outdated but I have seen many, many built up into really fantastic models.
As for a KV-1 late in the war, very unlikely. I seem to recall someone mentioning a photo of one in Berlin but I've never seen it that I can recall.
Good luck with your project!
Mark
Wisham
Alaska, United States
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Posted: Monday, July 13, 2009 - 05:36 AM UTC
The T-34/85 would be better choice to enter Berlin with, wicked battle, very costly for the Soviets. Have fun with your dio.
GeraldOwens
Florida, United States
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Posted: Monday, July 13, 2009 - 02:51 PM UTC
There were still some T-34-76 tanks in service during the Berlin Campaign, but they were greatly outnumbered by the T-34-85. Tamiya's T-34's are past their prime, with some dimensional errors, and rather unconvincing vinyl tracks. Dragon's offerings are better (they currently have a T-34-85 with so-called bedspring armor specifically for the Battle of Berlin).
By 1945, the surviving KV tanks had mostly lost their turrets, having been converted to recovery vehicles. The heavy tank in service was the IS-2 Stalin (now available in a very nice rendering from Tamiya).
By 1945, the surviving KV tanks had mostly lost their turrets, having been converted to recovery vehicles. The heavy tank in service was the IS-2 Stalin (now available in a very nice rendering from Tamiya).
bro_winky
Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Monday, July 13, 2009 - 05:41 PM UTC
As mentioned by earlier responses, there was T-34/76 Model 1943 hexagonal turret tanks present at Berlin in 1945. However, all of the photos I have seen show the later versions with the copula on the turret (rather that the double hatched “Mickey Mouse” version).The Tamiya kit does have optional parts to build this version, but as others have mentioned, it’s not the most up to date kit. Dragon recently released a T-34/76 hexagonal version, but it represents a much earlier “soft edge” turret version produced in 1942.
The above photo shows T-34/76 from the 4th Heavy Tank Regiment (a Polish Unit) during the Berlin operation.
Because the eastern front was such a meat grinder, it was rare for vehicles to stay in action longer than a few months. Most of the earlier tanks (especially the KVs) were destroyed by 1945, and production had strongly shifted away from the 76mm version in favor of the 85mm by the beginning of 1944. While not impossible, earlier Russian tanks were rare near the end of the war. As the pic above shows, many of the older surviving tanks ended up in foreign service within the Red Army.
The above photo shows T-34/76 from the 4th Heavy Tank Regiment (a Polish Unit) during the Berlin operation.
Because the eastern front was such a meat grinder, it was rare for vehicles to stay in action longer than a few months. Most of the earlier tanks (especially the KVs) were destroyed by 1945, and production had strongly shifted away from the 76mm version in favor of the 85mm by the beginning of 1944. While not impossible, earlier Russian tanks were rare near the end of the war. As the pic above shows, many of the older surviving tanks ended up in foreign service within the Red Army.
bro_winky
Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Monday, July 13, 2009 - 05:43 PM UTC
Sorry, heres the pic
MCR
Arizona, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 03:32 AM UTC
Just to be clear; the hex turreted T-34 was still extremely common to the end of the war and beyond, with and without the commander's cupola.
There are a number of reasons for this not the least of which is that a huge number of them were completed from 1942 to well into 1944. Whereas losses were frighteningly high the Soviets had a robust program for rebuilding damaged tanks ( to a significant extent this may account for the large numbers of "completed" tanks quoted as coming out of their factories as official production totals generally include factory rebuilt T-34s).
Whereas the the -85 is more numerous there are more than a few photos of Gaykas in and around Berlin.
In regard to DML's new hex turreted T-34, the "soft edge" hex turret actually came later in production. The first hex turrets were the "laminates", followed by the "hard edge", then the "soft edge" and the UZTM "Formochka" forged turrets (those last two may be transposed).
We know the exact introduction dates for only two of those turrets: March of 1942 for the "Laminate" and October for the "Formochka". I'm sure before too long we'll have the other two nailed down but their place on the time line can be based on dated photographs.
Mark
There are a number of reasons for this not the least of which is that a huge number of them were completed from 1942 to well into 1944. Whereas losses were frighteningly high the Soviets had a robust program for rebuilding damaged tanks ( to a significant extent this may account for the large numbers of "completed" tanks quoted as coming out of their factories as official production totals generally include factory rebuilt T-34s).
Whereas the the -85 is more numerous there are more than a few photos of Gaykas in and around Berlin.
In regard to DML's new hex turreted T-34, the "soft edge" hex turret actually came later in production. The first hex turrets were the "laminates", followed by the "hard edge", then the "soft edge" and the UZTM "Formochka" forged turrets (those last two may be transposed).
We know the exact introduction dates for only two of those turrets: March of 1942 for the "Laminate" and October for the "Formochka". I'm sure before too long we'll have the other two nailed down but their place on the time line can be based on dated photographs.
Mark
Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 03:42 AM UTC
Thanks Mark, Warren, Gerald, and Jon.
I appreciate your responses and help. That is why I always ask for help here. You can never go wrong when you ask the experts.
So now..................time to make a decision on what to build!
Thanks,
HARV
I appreciate your responses and help. That is why I always ask for help here. You can never go wrong when you ask the experts.
So now..................time to make a decision on what to build!
Thanks,
HARV
MCR
Arizona, United States
Joined: July 15, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 07:53 AM UTC
If you really want to do a Berlin T-34 you can not go wrong with DML's T-34-85's. They are pretty good detail wise (always room for improvement of course) and excellent in terms of shape and scale.
Good luck!
Mark
Good luck!
Mark
firstcircle
England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 10:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
As mentioned by earlier responses, there was T-34/76 Model 1943 hexagonal turret tanks present at Berlin in 1945. However, all of the photos I have seen show the later versions with the copula on the turret (rather that the double hatched “Mickey Mouse” version)
Squadron Signal's T34 In Action does have what it says is a column of tanks entering Berlin, led by a T34-76 model 1943 - appears to have the small round hatch with no cupola, which I guess is that double hatch version. I only mention this for the record!
Pyromaniac
England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, July 18, 2009 - 05:23 AM UTC
Quoted Text
If you really want to do a Berlin T-34 you can not go wrong with DML's T-34-85's.
i'll second that as i'm about to build DML's t 34/85 Bedspring armour variation and from what i can see it is a fantastic kit with excellent moulding and kit PE.
Minsk94
Wisconsin, United States
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Posted: Monday, July 20, 2009 - 11:32 AM UTC
T-34/76 (Micky Mouse) on the streets of Berlin
Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 01:56 AM UTC
Thanks again everybody for the help. I really appreciate the comments, suggestions and photos.
That is why this is such a great site. Ask for help and you get it.
Thanks again,
HARV
That is why this is such a great site. Ask for help and you get it.
Thanks again,
HARV