I know that some of these had the wrong turret shape, can anyone give me a quick run down of which ( if any ) of the Tamiya and Academy Tiger I kits have the correct turret shape, which have the incorrect turret shape and how noticeable is it and is it readily fixed ?
I'm looking at one of the Academy Tigers with an interior but just want to know if the turret shape is correct and if not how easy/hard would it be to fix ( or alternately replace with another turret shell ).
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Tamiya and Academy Tiger I Turrets
gremlinz
Joined: February 07, 2009
KitMaker: 795 posts
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Posted: Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 09:37 PM UTC
alanmac
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
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Posted: Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 10:27 PM UTC
Hi
Unless you purchased a really old Tamiya kit as I understand it they corrected the turret shape, which was the issue, some time ago, quietly without any sort of press release etc. We are talking a number of years ago.
As for the Academy I think from memory reading other posts the commanders cupola was located in the wrong position but I cant be sure as I'm only working from memory.
Best bet is for you to find the link to David Byrdens Tiger site . In it he lists most Tiger kits and what is needed to correct any errors. I can't find my bookmark to it at the moment.
Alan
Edit.
Here ya go. Just click on an image of the boxart and it takes you to the relevant page.
http://tiger1.info/kits.html
Unless you purchased a really old Tamiya kit as I understand it they corrected the turret shape, which was the issue, some time ago, quietly without any sort of press release etc. We are talking a number of years ago.
As for the Academy I think from memory reading other posts the commanders cupola was located in the wrong position but I cant be sure as I'm only working from memory.
Best bet is for you to find the link to David Byrdens Tiger site . In it he lists most Tiger kits and what is needed to correct any errors. I can't find my bookmark to it at the moment.
Alan
Edit.
Here ya go. Just click on an image of the boxart and it takes you to the relevant page.
http://tiger1.info/kits.html
gremlinz
Joined: February 07, 2009
KitMaker: 795 posts
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Posted: Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 10:57 PM UTC
Cheers Alan. I'd read up on his site but couldn't find anything about the turret shape but I remembered reading somewhere that early Tamiya and Academy ones had the wrong turret shape, something to do with it being symetrical when the gun should be offset.
I've bought the Tamiya one that comes boxed with the Fruil tracks and Aber barrel and am looking at getting one of the Academy ones with an interior but just wanted to be sure that the problem had either been fixed by the manufacturers or could be by me.
Looking at the Academy kit the gun does seem to be offset so the turret appears to not be symetrical as descibed so I'm assuming it is now correct but just wanted to be sure.
I gather the Dragon early Tiger 1 ( 6252 ) is the best option to go for but couldn't find one at a reasonable price so decided to just do my best with these for now.
I've bought the Tamiya one that comes boxed with the Fruil tracks and Aber barrel and am looking at getting one of the Academy ones with an interior but just wanted to be sure that the problem had either been fixed by the manufacturers or could be by me.
Looking at the Academy kit the gun does seem to be offset so the turret appears to not be symetrical as descibed so I'm assuming it is now correct but just wanted to be sure.
I gather the Dragon early Tiger 1 ( 6252 ) is the best option to go for but couldn't find one at a reasonable price so decided to just do my best with these for now.
Jamesite
Joined: December 05, 2006
KitMaker: 2,208 posts
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Posted: Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 11:45 PM UTC
Hi Dean,
As I understand it neither the Tamiya or Academy kits have the correct Asymetrical turret. This is to do with the fact that the turret has different angled curves on each side, which the manufacturers failed to pick up.
Honestly, it's not that noticeable and I wouldn't beat yourself up about it unless you are striving for complete accuracy. I don't beleive it's an easy fix to do yourself, but Tiger Model design do a correct shaped replacement.
Also I should note that the Academy interior is only correct for an early Tiger 1. It needs some work to be 100% accurate for the mid/late models, though it of course depends on how anal you want to be and how much will actually be seen on your finished model.
Here are a couple of articles over on ML that should be of use:
Converting academy interior to mid/late model
Creating an accurate Tiger 1 model
Osprey to a couple of books, including one on modelling the tank in 1/35 which are inexpensive and very useful too.
Have fun.
James
As I understand it neither the Tamiya or Academy kits have the correct Asymetrical turret. This is to do with the fact that the turret has different angled curves on each side, which the manufacturers failed to pick up.
Honestly, it's not that noticeable and I wouldn't beat yourself up about it unless you are striving for complete accuracy. I don't beleive it's an easy fix to do yourself, but Tiger Model design do a correct shaped replacement.
Also I should note that the Academy interior is only correct for an early Tiger 1. It needs some work to be 100% accurate for the mid/late models, though it of course depends on how anal you want to be and how much will actually be seen on your finished model.
Here are a couple of articles over on ML that should be of use:
Converting academy interior to mid/late model
Creating an accurate Tiger 1 model
Osprey to a couple of books, including one on modelling the tank in 1/35 which are inexpensive and very useful too.
Have fun.
James
Byrden
Joined: July 12, 2005
KitMaker: 2,233 posts
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Posted: Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 11:47 PM UTC
I'm not aware of any fixes to the Academy turret.
I didn't list these turret/cupola issues on my site because frankly I don't think they are fixable. If I were to list all the errors in the interior of the Academy kit, there would be 50 pages. I stick to the things that are fixable and effective.
The gun is offset in the mantlet - everybody gets that right - but the mantlet itself is offset, putting the gun in the center. Academy get that wrong.
David
I didn't list these turret/cupola issues on my site because frankly I don't think they are fixable. If I were to list all the errors in the interior of the Academy kit, there would be 50 pages. I stick to the things that are fixable and effective.
The gun is offset in the mantlet - everybody gets that right - but the mantlet itself is offset, putting the gun in the center. Academy get that wrong.
David
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Friday, September 11, 2009 - 08:48 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Dean,
As I understand it neither the Tamiya or Academy kits have the correct Asymetrical turret. This is to do with the fact that the turret has different angled curves on each side, which the manufacturers failed to pick up.
Honestly, it's not that noticeable and I wouldn't beat yourself up about it unless you are striving for complete accuracy. I don't beleive it's an easy fix to do yourself, but Tiger Model design do a correct shaped replacement.
Also I should note that the Academy interior is only correct for an early Tiger 1. It needs some work to be 100% accurate for the mid/late models, though it of course depends on how anal you want to be and how much will actually be seen on your finished model.
Here are a couple of articles over on ML that should be of use:
Converting academy interior to mid/late model
Creating an accurate Tiger 1 model
Osprey to a couple of books, including one on modelling the tank in 1/35 which are inexpensive and very useful too.
Have fun.
James
The very first issues of the Tamiya "Late" and "Mid Production" Tiger I had the incorrect turret shape. When Tamiya released their "Initial" and "Early" Tiger kits in the late 90's, they had access to corrected drawings, so these turrets were depicted correctly. At that time, Tamiya also revised the molds for the two earlier kits to the correct asymmetrical shape (but did not announce the upgrade--they didn't want to publicize their earlier mistake).
Academy's turrets are depicted as symmetrical (as are Italeri's), but Academy also got the commander's cupola in the wrong position, too far back and too far inboard.
Any of the incorrect turrets can be corrected with the Tiger Model Designs resin replacements, but that's really only cost effective if you're already stuck with one of the old kits. If you're buying new, just get a Dragon, Tamiya or AFV Club kit.
Osprey actually has two books on modeling (or "modelling" in British parlance) the Tiger I. The earlier book is devoted to improving the 1/35th scale Tamiya kits, while the more recent one is built around kitbashing the 1/35th Dragon kits (with some Tamiya bits thrown in). It also has a chapter on a 1/16th scale Tiger.
gremlinz
Joined: February 07, 2009
KitMaker: 795 posts
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Posted: Friday, September 11, 2009 - 10:12 AM UTC
Thanks for the input guys, that's been most helpful.
I think I'm going to use the one I have ( Tamiya kit number 89646 ) as the base and get the Academy one just to use some of the interior parts ( it's only $25 USD ).
It comes with Fruil tracks and an Aber barrel and I've picked up the Verlinden engine bay and Voyager PE for it
There's probably a few more bits I'll need to get as I get more into it and those Osprey books sound like they're the go.
I'm going for a late summer/early autumn 1943 in Italy setting so I assume I don't need zimmerit but I'm happy to be corrected - planning on depicting an LSSAH vehicle either arriving in August ( not sure how to convey the sense of arriving in Northern Italy fresh from the aftermath of Kursk ) or in September disarming some of their former ally.
So feel free to throw me any ideas on things which would add authenticity to the scene.
I think I'm going to use the one I have ( Tamiya kit number 89646 ) as the base and get the Academy one just to use some of the interior parts ( it's only $25 USD ).
It comes with Fruil tracks and an Aber barrel and I've picked up the Verlinden engine bay and Voyager PE for it
There's probably a few more bits I'll need to get as I get more into it and those Osprey books sound like they're the go.
I'm going for a late summer/early autumn 1943 in Italy setting so I assume I don't need zimmerit but I'm happy to be corrected - planning on depicting an LSSAH vehicle either arriving in August ( not sure how to convey the sense of arriving in Northern Italy fresh from the aftermath of Kursk ) or in September disarming some of their former ally.
So feel free to throw me any ideas on things which would add authenticity to the scene.
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2009 - 12:38 AM UTC
Well, if you want maximum accuracy, pick up Thomas Jentz's book, "Germany's Tiger Tanks D.W. to Tiger I: Design, Production & Modifications" published by Schiffer. It covers the development and production modifications of the Tiger I, with multiple 1/35th scale drawings of all variants, plus 1/16th scale detail drawings of many major components. The book is available from Amazon at a substantial discount. Stackpole has republished the Wolfgang Schneider book, "Tigers in Combat, Volume 2," which has unit histories, org charts, delivery and loss records, and photos of every SS division and battalion to use the Tiger I. The pictures are divided up by unit, so you can glean specific cammo and marking practices for each battalion. The paperback is around $20 USD from Amazon (the original hardback edition was larger and printed on nicer paper, but also cost well over $100).
The original Osprey Modelling Manual on the Tiger is, "Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger (Modelling Manuals)," by Jerry Scutts, and dwells on the Tamiya kits. The newer item is "Modelling the Tiger I (Osprey Modelling)," by Gary Edmundsen, which is devoted more to the Dragon products. Both have lots of useful information, though, and the first book has some museum detail photos as well as build logs of several models. There's also a third book which deals with 1/72nd scale Tigers.
The original Osprey Modelling Manual on the Tiger is, "Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger (Modelling Manuals)," by Jerry Scutts, and dwells on the Tamiya kits. The newer item is "Modelling the Tiger I (Osprey Modelling)," by Gary Edmundsen, which is devoted more to the Dragon products. Both have lots of useful information, though, and the first book has some museum detail photos as well as build logs of several models. There's also a third book which deals with 1/72nd scale Tigers.
Byrden
Joined: July 12, 2005
KitMaker: 2,233 posts
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Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2009 - 04:32 AM UTC
Did the Tigers of LSSAH actually get sent to Italy or did they get new Tigers on arrival there?
David
David
gremlinz
Joined: February 07, 2009
KitMaker: 795 posts
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Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2009 - 11:27 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Did the Tigers of LSSAH actually get sent to Italy or did they get new Tigers on arrival there?
David
Far as I can tell they headed there with new Tigers
Quoted Text
Having been pulled out of Russia in response to the landings in Sicily in July 1943, Panzer Grenadier Division Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler (LSSAH) was refitted and sent to Italy in August 1943. Attached to the division were elements of the newly formed schwere SS Panzer Abteilung of the I.SS Panzer Korps with 27 Tigers that had been issued in July 1943. As a result of Italy's defection, LSSAH remained in northern Italy until mid-October.
So I'm assuming they as they were pre zimmerit they won't need it and I'd be looking at a model produced in early 43 or a refitted early model. Unfortunately my knowledge of Tigers is somewhat limited so I'll be using your site and reference books to try and best replicate the right model for that time period so will be looking to find the above books.
Unfortunately I find reference for me takes some time as I usually buy from Amazon but as I own a bookshop I do them as a business purchase and ship them through my frieght forwarder so they take around two months to get to me so I find all my builds spend the first three months in the research and planning stage.
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 11:29 PM UTC
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