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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
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M60A1 kit questions
Yoni_Lev
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Washington, United States
Joined: September 20, 2007
KitMaker: 861 posts
Armorama: 394 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 01:10 PM UTC

A modeling buddy and I were looking through his huge stash of models when we came across two M60A1 kits : Tamiya's US Marine M60A1 w/ Reactive Armor (#35157) and Academy's USMC M60A1 RISE w/M9 dozer blade (#1390).

I jokingly (or half-jokingly) suggested that he build one of them and enter it in Armorama's Cold War campaign. Some discussion ensued, followed by a bit of internet searching, which turned up a bunch of contradictory information. Of course, this led to some serious head-scratching, so I decided to turn to the good folks here for some clarification.

The long and short of it is this: were the Marine M60A1s (RISE) with ERA, as provided in the above mentioned kits, in actual service prior to 1989?

TIA.

-YL
tommytanker
Joined: February 23, 2007
KitMaker: 44 posts
Armorama: 34 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 02:17 PM UTC
Hi,
In the Army we got ours (M60a3 RISE) in mid '78, just before I reenlisted. I would guess the Marines got theirs 2-3 years later. As an Army vehicle it would defiantly be cold war.
Good Hunting,
Tommy tanker
GeraldOwens
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Florida, United States
Joined: March 30, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2009 - 08:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text


A modeling buddy and I were looking through his huge stash of models when we came across two M60A1 kits : Tamiya's US Marine M60A1 w/ Reactive Armor (#35157) and Academy's USMC M60A1 RISE w/M9 dozer blade (#1390).

I jokingly (or half-jokingly) suggested that he build one of them and enter it in Armorama's Cold War campaign. Some discussion ensued, followed by a bit of internet searching, which turned up a bunch of contradictory information. Of course, this led to some serious head-scratching, so I decided to turn to the good folks here for some clarification.

The long and short of it is this: were the Marine M60A1s (RISE) with ERA, as provided in the above mentioned kits, in actual service prior to 1989?

TIA.

-YL

The Marines bought the Explosive Reactive Armor kits, but did not ordinarily operate their vehicles with it installed. When Operation Desert Shield began in 1990, Marine tanks stored on prepositioning ships were rushed to Saudi Arabia and hurriedly fitted with the armor suite before Operation Desert Storm began in early 1991. Offhand, I don't know what year the ERA kits were actually procured.
The Army declined to buy it, preferring to invest in more Abrams tanks rather than try to upgrade the obsolescent M60 series.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 02:56 AM UTC
I am not sure when the ERA actually hit the field, but 1988-89 would be a good guess. I was stationed in Germany on the M60A3TTS starting in late 1987 and we turned them in during the summer of 1989 for M1A1s.

When we had the A3s, we received a bunch of field manuals for the ERA. The TMs showed how to prep the vehicle, where to weld the mounting posts, etc. Someone was contemplating that we would equip our vehicles with them eventually. Thankfully we never did because of the arrival of the M1A1.

Manuals generally become available while the items are being readied for fielding. So using the timeframe of 1988 to mid 1989, I would think the ERA kits were available for fielding somewhere during this time.

But as to whether the Marines had them installed, there is a former Marine tanker or two that frequent this site and Missing Lynx. Either one would know for sure. The Marine Corps tanker community is a small one and they would be able to answer this accurately.
Yoni_Lev
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Washington, United States
Joined: September 20, 2007
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Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 03:26 AM UTC
I appreciate the replies.

As I continue to dig, it's looking less and less likely that the USMC had the ERA fitted to operational M60A1s prior to ODS in '91. But if anyone has any information actually confirming (or denying) this, I'd be happy to hear it.

TIA, again.

-YL
pigsty
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United Kingdom
Joined: January 16, 2007
KitMaker: 1,226 posts
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Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 09:43 PM UTC
Here's a thought: they must have tried it out before 1991 or they wouldn't have known that they wanted to keep it. So if you were to model an M60A1 with the ERA in pre-1989 colours, you'd be mostly right ...
Yoni_Lev
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Washington, United States
Joined: September 20, 2007
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 10:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Here's a thought: they must have tried it out before 1991 or they wouldn't have known that they wanted to keep it. So if you were to model an M60A1 with the ERA in pre-1989 colours, you'd be mostly right ...


Or, the kits mentioned could be built without the ERA and be period-correct (prior to '89), as well.

I didn't actually poke around in the kit boxes to see if this was a feasible option, but I can't see why it wouldn't be...

-YL


Ranger74
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: April 04, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 09:44 AM UTC
Yes the Marines had ERA-equipped M60A1s in the Marine Corps Reserve Battalion atODS/90-91. There was a big stink when a Marine's dad wrote his congressman as to why the Marines were going into combat with M60A1s when the regular Marines and the Army had M1s & M1A1s. The Army had to turn over a battalions worth of M1s to the Marines.

I commanded a tank company equipped with M60A3s in Germany, 1983-84, and the battalion had M60A1s (Passives) up to early 1983. My battalion was the last battalion in Germany to trade in our M60A1s for M60A3s, even as M1s were being issued to the 3rd Infantry Division. We still have M60A1/A3s side-by-side with M1s at the National Training Center as late as 1987 when I left that posting.

Jeff
pigsty
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United Kingdom
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Posted: Monday, October 19, 2009 - 03:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Here's a thought: they must have tried it out before 1991 or they wouldn't have known that they wanted to keep it. So if you were to model an M60A1 with the ERA in pre-1989 colours, you'd be mostly right ...


Or, the kits mentioned could be built without the ERA and be period-correct (prior to '89), as well.

I didn't actually poke around in the kit boxes to see if this was a feasible option, but I can't see why it wouldn't be...

-YL




Can't speak for the Tamiya kit but the Academy one has a lot of locating points for the ERA moulded in as little grooves. It's by no means impossible, but they would take a fair bit of filling.
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