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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Which Shermans Kit For Normandy 1944-45
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Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: September 21, 2003
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Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 12:48 PM UTC
I read the book "Citizens Army" whilst on holidays recently. This book tells the story of the US & Allies invasion of Europe from D-Day right through to the fall of Germany. I was particularly interested to read about the "battle of the hedgerows" in Northern France. I would like to know which of the many Sherman kit available would best depict such a vehicle from this period.

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calvin_ng
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Joined: June 23, 2008
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Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 03:43 PM UTC
The allies use a wide array of variants
American-M4 sherman (dragon)
M4a1(tasca, old dragon)
M4 composite, ive seen these rarely, look in Steve Z's armored thunder bolt and there a couple.
M4a1 76mm (dragon operation cobra)
Britsh-m4
m4a1
m4a2 ? Polish used it too
Firefly m4a4 (dragon or tasca)
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Monday, October 12, 2009 - 04:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I read the book "Citizens Army" whilst on holidays recently. This book tells the story of the US & Allies invasion of Europe from D-Day right through to the fall of Germany. I was particularly interested to read about the "battle of the hedgerows" in Northern France. I would like to know which of the many Sherman kit available would best depict such a vehicle from this period.

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During the Normandy landings and prior to the breakout in August, the US limited the Shermans to the M4 and M4A1 types, since they shared the same engine and this simplified the spare parts situation. All were 75 mm armed types, initially, though the 76 mm armed M4A1 appeared in July in small numbers. In the breakout period, the M4A3 75 mm gun tanks with the wet stowage hull (47 degree hull front) began to appear, and the M4 and M4A3 with 105 mm howitzer was issued to the headquarters companies for fire support. The M4A3 76 mm version appears later in the fall.
The recent Dragon Normandy M4 kit is an excellent basis for several M4 variants seen at that time (you have numerous parts options in the box). The Tasca mid production M4A1 could also be used. Dragon's Operation Cobra M4A1 with 76 mm is a decent kit, though it needs some corrections (Steve Zaloga's Osprey book on Modelling late M4 variants has a chapter devoted to this kit).
The Tamiya Early M4 has several difficult errors, notably a hull front suitable for an early M4A3 or a late M4A4, but not an M4, and it has the suspension with the upswept return roller brackets, which only appear from late 1943, so the three piece transmission cover doesn't really work with that time frame.
Totalize
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 03:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I read the book "Citizens Army" whilst on holidays recently. This book tells the story of the US & Allies invasion of Europe from D-Day right through to the fall of Germany. I was particularly interested to read about the "battle of the hedgerows" in Northern France. I would like to know which of the many Sherman kit available would best depict such a vehicle from this period.

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Calvin and Gerald give a good overview of the various types of Shermans used. For my 2 cents worth, certainly on the U.S. side the M4 and M4A1 were the types that were initially deployed by the US Army in Normandy. The Dragon M4 (Kit 6511) is probably your best bet for a Normandy M4. You could also use the Tamiya M4 early (35190) but as already mentioned it has the upswept return roller arms which you would have to replace with the early type. AFV club can help here as they have an early VVSS suspension set which you could use. The Tasca M4A1 (35012) would be my choice for for the M4A1.

For the Canadian, Brit, Polish forces they predominantly used the Sherman V (M4A4) and the Sherman VC and IC with the 17 pound gun. The Brits and Canadians also used a fair amount of Sherman III's (M4A2) while the Brits also used some Sherman II's (M4A1) and Sherman I's(M4) as well. I believe the armoured divsions used the Sherman V and VC exclusively while the independent armoured brigades tended to deploy a mix of all types. For a selection of kits to represent them I would look at:

Sherman I (DML 6511)
Sherman II (Tasca late M4A1)
Sherman III (probably DML's 6062 or 6231) For the 6231 I would chuck the tracks since as far as I can tell the block type tracks were only used in Sicily and Italy.
Sherman V (Tasca's beautiful kit 35016 or to a cheaper extent DML's orange box Sherman V)
Sherman VC (Tasca's 35009 or 35011 would be my choice)
Sherman IC welded hull. To get an accurate kit you would have to do a kit bash of an M4 or M4 DV (Direct Vision) Hull with a IC turret. Armour brigade models makes some nice aftermarket IC turrets as does The tank workshop. Armour brigade I believe is the only one that makes both Firefly turrets with and without the pistol port. Formations models makes an M4 DV hull as does the Tank workshop.

For reviews of some of these kits I would head over to PMMS to check them out.

http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/vehicles/revafv.htm

All the best.

David.
ElectricFactory
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Posted: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 10:19 AM UTC
David,
Very informative post, I'm curious though- the Tamiya M4 is mentioned nowhere in your list of prefered Sherman kits.
How come ?
How would anyone here rate the Tasca vs Tamiya M4 Sherman by way of printed directions, build clarity, tracks and detail ?
ALBOWIE
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: February 28, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 10:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

David,
Very informative post, I'm curious though- the Tamiya M4 is mentioned nowhere in your list of prefered Sherman kits.
How come ?
How would anyone here rate the Tasca vs Tamiya M4 Sherman by way of printed directions, build clarity, tracks and detail ?



The Tamiya M4 was specifically mentioned as to why it was NOT recommended.
The Kit is a mish mash of features with one glaring and difficult to correct error. The Glacis and Hoods are the "wide" type seen on early M4A3 and M4A4 hulls only. Other problems with this kit are as follows:
Bogies - Late type not suitable for variant
Hollow backed Idlers and Roadwheels (Spoked OK)
Weld Seams are recessed wherethey should be slightly proud of plates.

The Turret is good however and offers a rudimentary interior including gun and breech. I also like the Tamiya T48 tracks - no fuss

Apart from that it is suitable but needs a lot of work compared to a Tasca M4A1 or DML M4 Normandy for US
or the following for Brit:
SHerman III - 27 and 8 AB
Sherman I - 33 AB
Sherman II- 4 AB
Sherman V - 11 AD, Guards AD

Polish -
Sherman V

Canadian
Sherman V & III

Cheers
Al
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