Does anybody have clear photos of the mountings for the yellow beacon lights seen on this M88?
Cheers
/E
Hosted by Darren Baker
M88 Germany 70's - mounting for beacon lights
zapper
Joined: October 18, 2005
KitMaker: 745 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 10:10 AM UTC
Hi guys
Does anybody have clear photos of the mountings for the yellow beacon lights seen on this M88?
Cheers
/E
Does anybody have clear photos of the mountings for the yellow beacon lights seen on this M88?
Cheers
/E
Headhunter506
Joined: December 01, 2007
KitMaker: 1,575 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 12:10 PM UTC
I was with the 1st AD, in Illisheim, from '81-85. This is what we used to secure whoopie lights (that being the correct military nomenclature for Beacon, Rotating, Vehicular) on 113s, M578s and M88s:
Nothing fancy or involved. Its amber, not yellow, by the way.
Nothing fancy or involved. Its amber, not yellow, by the way.
chnoone
Joined: January 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,036 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 09:20 PM UTC
Hi Erik,
try this site: http://www.panzer-modell.de
Sidebar to the left:
Klick on: Referenzen
Klick on: In Detail
Scroll down to M88
Good luck
Christopher
try this site: http://www.panzer-modell.de
Sidebar to the left:
Klick on: Referenzen
Klick on: In Detail
Scroll down to M88
Good luck
Christopher
zapper
Joined: October 18, 2005
KitMaker: 745 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 10:08 PM UTC
Thanks guys. I relize that I wasen't really clear on what I meant exactly and I guess the blurry picture doesn't explain it very well either.
So here is what I meant to ask:
On US M88s in Germany, late 70's, the whoopie lights (thanks Joseph) seem mounted on a plate on each side of the upper hull (in lack of better words). What I'm interested in are the look of these plates, how they are mounted to the hull and where the cables might go. I've seen it on a number of photos from this period so I will say it is a standard configuration.
Looking at my M88A1 kit I got an idea of how the mounting plates are attached to the vehicle. On each side of the rear part of the M88 upper hull there are a ventilator with cover. The cover are attached with four bolts. My guess is that they put the plate between the cover and its bolts. Would be happy if anybody could confirm this.
/E
So here is what I meant to ask:
On US M88s in Germany, late 70's, the whoopie lights (thanks Joseph) seem mounted on a plate on each side of the upper hull (in lack of better words). What I'm interested in are the look of these plates, how they are mounted to the hull and where the cables might go. I've seen it on a number of photos from this period so I will say it is a standard configuration.
Looking at my M88A1 kit I got an idea of how the mounting plates are attached to the vehicle. On each side of the rear part of the M88 upper hull there are a ventilator with cover. The cover are attached with four bolts. My guess is that they put the plate between the cover and its bolts. Would be happy if anybody could confirm this.
/E
Tankrider
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,280 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 11:06 PM UTC
Erik,
What you described is my recollection from several M88A1s in the early 90's. The plates were torch cut metal plates that were wide enough to accomodate the old Rotating Amber Warling Lights (RAWLs). The plates were bolted to the top of the ventilator covers and I assume that the wires were run into the vehicle through the ventilator somehow. I seem to remember that the plates were never totally horizontal, often bent downward in a slight angle and the amber covers were often broken or totally missing. During this time, the strobe style lights were predomionately found on the M1A1a, Brads, HWWMVs and HEMMTs. The rotating lights tended to be on the older vehicles- M88s, M35A2 21/2 ton trucks and M800 series 5 tons. Sorry, I do not have any pictures of the particular setup.
HTH
John
What you described is my recollection from several M88A1s in the early 90's. The plates were torch cut metal plates that were wide enough to accomodate the old Rotating Amber Warling Lights (RAWLs). The plates were bolted to the top of the ventilator covers and I assume that the wires were run into the vehicle through the ventilator somehow. I seem to remember that the plates were never totally horizontal, often bent downward in a slight angle and the amber covers were often broken or totally missing. During this time, the strobe style lights were predomionately found on the M1A1a, Brads, HWWMVs and HEMMTs. The rotating lights tended to be on the older vehicles- M88s, M35A2 21/2 ton trucks and M800 series 5 tons. Sorry, I do not have any pictures of the particular setup.
HTH
John
zapper
Joined: October 18, 2005
KitMaker: 745 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 12:46 AM UTC
Many thanks John!
Based on the faulty assumption that this was an "early" (70's) way of mounting them I never took the time to look through all the pictures on Primeportal. Checking them again gave me the info I needed. Here's one PP album with some nice pictures:
http://www.primeportal.net/recovery/dieter_mueller/m88/
Cheers,
/E
Based on the faulty assumption that this was an "early" (70's) way of mounting them I never took the time to look through all the pictures on Primeportal. Checking them again gave me the info I needed. Here's one PP album with some nice pictures:
http://www.primeportal.net/recovery/dieter_mueller/m88/
Cheers,
/E
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 01:27 AM UTC
Like John says, the mounts for the larger whoopie lights were all locally fabricated using cut pieces of sheet metal and pipes. A year or so after we got HMMWVs and M1A1s, the smaller strobe light style came into the inventory. It was then that I saw purpose-built premanufactured mount kits for the RAWLS. Which I guess was a technologically incorrect acronym for the strobe since it no longer rotated.
ptruhe
Joined: March 05, 2003
KitMaker: 2,092 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 02:45 AM UTC
Here's somewhat of a closeup on the light. This is 1988-89.
Paul
Paul
barron
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 666 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 04:58 AM UTC
I can't rember how they were mounted on the 88s , but in 2/68 armor the lights on our tanks were mounted on a 50cal ammocan and bolted to the rear fender. The tanks were m60a3tts. 
Headhunter506
Joined: December 01, 2007
KitMaker: 1,575 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 05:37 AM UTC
I was assigned to A/1/6 INF (Mech) at Illesheim. As Robert indicated, the whoopie lights were jerry rigged to the vehicles. The ones on our M113A2s were powered by jumper wires connected to the left rear stoplight. Very sensitive tech information there. SMLM teams were constantly trying to get us to spill the beans about them.
I also recall that we started using the strobes, around October 1983. They were attached to a 2 1/2 foot tall piece of 1 1/4 inch pipe which was mounted onto a 4-4 1/2 square plate near the left rear lifting ring on the roof. Once again, wired to the left rear stoplight.
During Carbine/Fortress, REFORGER 1982, my platoon leader and I "borrowed" six battery-powered warning flashers that were originally attached to road barriers at a construction site in Geroltshofen. All the whoopie lights on our platoon tracks were smashed while tooling through the woods. We hotwired them to PRC-77 batteries in order to get'em working.
I also recall that we started using the strobes, around October 1983. They were attached to a 2 1/2 foot tall piece of 1 1/4 inch pipe which was mounted onto a 4-4 1/2 square plate near the left rear lifting ring on the roof. Once again, wired to the left rear stoplight.
During Carbine/Fortress, REFORGER 1982, my platoon leader and I "borrowed" six battery-powered warning flashers that were originally attached to road barriers at a construction site in Geroltshofen. All the whoopie lights on our platoon tracks were smashed while tooling through the woods. We hotwired them to PRC-77 batteries in order to get'em working.
zapper
Joined: October 18, 2005
KitMaker: 745 posts
Armorama: 734 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 05:26 AM UTC
Hi all
Beeing part of the team that organizes the local scale model show last weekend have kept me away from Armorama for a few days.
Just want to thank you all for your input. Much appreciated!
Now all I have to do is finding something that can be used for RAWLs.
Cheers,
/E
Beeing part of the team that organizes the local scale model show last weekend have kept me away from Armorama for a few days.
Just want to thank you all for your input. Much appreciated!
Now all I have to do is finding something that can be used for RAWLs.
Cheers,
/E
Headhunter506
Joined: December 01, 2007
KitMaker: 1,575 posts
Armorama: 1,509 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 01:42 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi all
Beeing part of the team that organizes the local scale model show last weekend have kept me away from Armorama for a few days.
Just want to thank you all for your input. Much appreciated!
Now all I have to do is finding something that can be used for RAWLs.
Cheers,
/E
Check Verlinden. I bought a U.S./NATO Radio Sets resin kit some years ago and it contained 3-4 resin whoopie lights. As far as I know, it still might be available.
zapper
Joined: October 18, 2005
KitMaker: 745 posts
Armorama: 734 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 09:24 PM UTC
Doh!
I already have that set in the stash
. Thanks for reminding me of its content. At least I knew where I had it so it just took 2 sec. to dig it up.
/E
I already have that set in the stash
. Thanks for reminding me of its content. At least I knew where I had it so it just took 2 sec. to dig it up. /E
Tazoslo
Joined: October 29, 2007
KitMaker: 58 posts
Armorama: 52 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 - 11:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I was assigned to A/1/6 INF (Mech) at Illesheim. As Robert indicated, the whoopie lights were jerry rigged to the vehicles. The ones on our M113A2s were powered by jumper wires connected to the left rear stoplight. Very sensitive tech information there. SMLM teams were constantly trying to get us to spill the beans about them.
I also recall that we started using the strobes, around October 1983. They were attached to a 2 1/2 foot tall piece of 1 1/4 inch pipe which was mounted onto a 4-4 1/2 square plate near the left rear lifting ring on the roof. Once again, wired to the left rear stoplight.
During Carbine/Fortress, REFORGER 1982, my platoon leader and I "borrowed" six battery-powered warning flashers that were originally attached to road barriers at a construction site in Geroltshofen. All the whoopie lights on our platoon tracks were smashed while tooling through the woods. We hotwired them to PRC-77 batteries in order to get'em working.
This is an interesting post in regards to rivet counting. As is explained here people do all kind of ad hoc installations to their vehicles. If we in 40 years from now see a picture of a M113 with jump wires connected to the left stop lights could we/would we then assume that this was the standard operating prosedure for whoopie lights? If we look at how people interpert any picture of any AFV from WWII i would say yes, until someone else finds a picture with it connected to the right break light, then the arguing starts
As long as there have been armies there have been smart (and dumb) people trying to make their situation better/safer through different "adjustments" to their gear. I would say people have a big leeway when it comes to what you can do with a kit in ways of customizing. Smart things we think of was most likely also thougt of by the people living and fighting in the vehicles we build
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 - 12:24 AM UTC
I agree that there were as many ways to connect a whoopie light as there were units that used them. On my M60A3TTS tank, a simple toggle switch was hooked up inside the turret and I could simply flip it to turn on the light. I don't even know if the other three tanks in my platoon had the same set up, let alone the other 13 tanks in the company or other 57 tanks in the battalion.
Conversely, when we transitioned to the M1A1, there was an approved solution for hooking up the whoopie light that the GDLS civilian rep that resided with our unit explained to the maintenance personnel. They hooked up the whoopie light cable to the TC's dome light. The dome light works like a dimmer switch with a reostat (sp?). As you twist the light on, the whoopie light started to strobe. The downside was that if you needed the TC's dome light, you'd end up turning on your whoopie light; not ideal in a tactical situation. But normally there was enough light from all the controls panels that made the dome light unnecessary.
Conversely, when we transitioned to the M1A1, there was an approved solution for hooking up the whoopie light that the GDLS civilian rep that resided with our unit explained to the maintenance personnel. They hooked up the whoopie light cable to the TC's dome light. The dome light works like a dimmer switch with a reostat (sp?). As you twist the light on, the whoopie light started to strobe. The downside was that if you needed the TC's dome light, you'd end up turning on your whoopie light; not ideal in a tactical situation. But normally there was enough light from all the controls panels that made the dome light unnecessary.
Tankrider
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,280 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 - 07:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The downside was that if you needed the TC's dome light, you'd end up turning on your whoopie light; not ideal in a tactical situation. But normally there was enough light from all the controls panels that made the dome light unnecessary.
Perfect for deceiving the OPFOR into thinking that you were a dead tank... Ahh, the strolls down memory lane.
John
Headhunter506
Joined: December 01, 2007
KitMaker: 1,575 posts
Armorama: 1,509 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 - 08:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThe downside was that if you needed the TC's dome light, you'd end up turning on your whoopie light; not ideal in a tactical situation. But normally there was enough light from all the controls panels that made the dome light unnecessary.
Perfect for deceiving the OPFOR into thinking that you were a dead tank... Ahh, the strolls down memory lane.
John
Speaking of which, do you remember the "God Gun" that evaluators used to set off all the MILES equipment? Well, being that I'm a curious (read: nosy) bum by nature, I started tinkering with the M16 mounted laser. Much to my warped satisfaction, I discovered if I used a jumper wire to connect the J1 and J2 connectors, located on the back of the unit, I created my own "God Gun". Not only was the unit placed in a state of permanent activation (until the jumper was removed, or the battery died); but, and this is the best part, the laser output was increased to a level where I could "kill" anything equipped with MILES gear. That included tanks and AH-1Ts. I passed along information of my discovery to select members of my company. From 1983-85, we tore up any unit we engaged during FTXs. We'd fan our modded units to paint the tree lines. All you hear was the high-pitched sound of the OPFOR MILES gear going off and saw the flash of whoopie lights from the dead tanks/tracks followed by the expected cursing from the unwitting pigeons trying to turn the damned stuff off. Sure, it's cheating. It was fun, though.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 12:24 AM UTC
Just about every soldier figured out how to use a piece of a paper clip or any other appropriate length of wire to make their MILES transmitter into a god gun. You could also do that to the .50, coax and main gun transmitters so you would have a "constant on" mode. In other words, your main gun and machine gun transmitters would send out beams constantly instead of just when the triggers were pulled.
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