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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Post D-Day B1-bis crew
comscan
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: March 23, 2009
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Posted: Friday, November 06, 2009 - 06:45 AM UTC
Greetings Guys

I am building the Tamiya B1 in use with the French forces post D-Day! (as in recaptured) can anyone furnish me with info/pics of the B1 crew uniforms at this time or did they use the same clothing as pre invasion?

Thanks
jimbrae
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Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
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Posted: Friday, November 06, 2009 - 07:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I am building the Tamiya B1 in use with the French forces post D-Day! can anyone furnish me with info/pics of the B1 crew uniforms at this time or did they use the same clothing as pre invasion?


The Char B was NOT used by French Armored Units when they landed in France. The only users at that time were the Wermacht and a handful of vehicles captured by the FFI (particularly in August 1944 in Paris). There WERE some Char Bs in French hands in 1945 for internal security. French tanker uniforms at that period were exactly the same as their U.S. counterparts.
comscan
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: March 23, 2009
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Posted: Friday, February 19, 2010 - 05:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I am building the Tamiya B1 in use with the French forces post D-Day! can anyone furnish me with info/pics of the B1 crew uniforms at this time or did they use the same clothing as pre invasion?


The Char B was NOT used by French Armored Units when they landed in France. The only users at that time were the Wermacht and a handful of vehicles captured by the FFI (particularly in August 1944 in Paris). There WERE some Char Bs in French hands in 1945 for internal security. French tanker uniforms at that period were exactly the same as their U.S. counterparts.


Now that I have managed to dig up some more info on the above subject in all actuality the above statement is not strictly true! yes for the most part FFI crews used contemporary us uniforms.
Having said that evidence suggests that on French AFV's at least helmets and crew head gear was still French amongst other items, this is turning into quite an intresting research subject!

Photo's to follow!
jimbrae
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Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
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Posted: Friday, February 19, 2010 - 06:23 AM UTC
FFI were the 'irregular' Pro-De Gaulle resistance. No armored units within them. Only French Armored units in France (from July 1944) were LeClerc's 2nd Armored Division - who CERTAINLY weren't equipped with the Char B.
Frenchy
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Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Friday, February 19, 2010 - 08:27 AM UTC
Here are 2 pictures showing B1 Bis tanks and crew members that belonged to the 13e Régiment de Dragon (re-created in August 1944) in the Royan Pocket area, April 1945 (from Chars-francais.net )





HTH

Frenchy
comscan
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: March 23, 2009
KitMaker: 9 posts
Armorama: 5 posts
Posted: Friday, February 19, 2010 - 02:20 PM UTC
And that same site also has an excellent photo of Vercors which is same vehicle's markings as supplied with the Tamiya german army B1 kit.

As stated earlier (NOT strictly true!}

jimbrae
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Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
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Posted: Friday, February 19, 2010 - 10:20 PM UTC
Thanks Frenchy, this confirms my point exactly - the French ONLY used the Char B for internal security roles post-Liberation of Paris and Post War.

For Markings (and don't know whether they're still available) but these two items I found an enormous help:

http://armorama.com/review/1820

The Echelon Decal Set which includes Post-War Markings:

gremlinz
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Hamilton, New Zealand
Joined: February 07, 2009
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Posted: Friday, February 19, 2010 - 11:40 PM UTC
Well on the question of uniforms for what it's worth Osprey 318 ( French Army 1939-1945 Part 2 ) which covers the FFI says the Free French under DeGaulle used US uniforms but the FFI due to lack of availability used mostly pre war 1939-1940 vintage French uniforms supplemented with Canadian uniforms ( which would explain why in the photos above they appear to be wearing British uniforms ).

The FFI had an armoured unit made up of recaptured Char Bs and Somuas I think though I couldn't say if they were used anywhere in action, the FFI sort of dissappeared by the end of 1944 as they were merged into regular French units so any actions they took part in in 1945 would have been as part of the regular French Army.

I would also assume ( emphasis on assume as I don't know for certain ) that as they were integrated into regular French Army units that they would have been reissued with whatever uniform the regular army was wearing.
Frenchy
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Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 12:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The FFI had an armoured unit made up of recaptured Char Bs and Somuas I think though I couldn't say if they were used anywhere in action, the FFI sort of dissappeared by the end of 1944 as they were merged into regular French units so any actions they took part in in 1945 would have been as part of the regular French Army.

I think the armored unit you're talking about is the 13e Régiment de Dragons I was refering to in my previous post. It was engaged in the Royan Pocket fightings side by side with 6th US Army units. It included one B1 Bis squadron (15 tanks), the two other squadrons were composed of Somua S-35 and light tanks.

Frenchy
comscan
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: March 23, 2009
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Posted: Saturday, February 20, 2010 - 03:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The FFI had an armoured unit made up of recaptured Char Bs and Somuas I think though I couldn't say if they were used anywhere in action, the FFI sort of dissappeared by the end of 1944 as they were merged into regular French units so any actions they took part in in 1945 would have been as part of the regular French Army.

I think the armored unit you're talking about is the 13e Régiment de Dragons I was refering to in my previous post. It was engaged in the Royan Pocket fightings side by side with 6th US Army units. It included one B1 Bis squadron (15 tanks), the two other squadrons were composed of Somua S-35 and light tanks.

Frenchy


Thanks for the input guys and this basicaly fits in with the subject that I'am trying to produce. also gives me some options as far as uniforms go!
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