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New camo pattern?
drewgimpy
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Utah, United States
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 835 posts
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Posted: Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 02:26 PM UTC
I saw this and have a question

image here

It looks like the same one that my trumpeter M1A2 kit has. I thought it was a mistake with the kit, but maybe not. Can someone let me know whats up with this camo pattern?
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
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Posted: Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 10:09 PM UTC
Locally applied camo pattern used on the fleet of vehicles that is available for training units to use. These tanks there, although fully mission capable, are basically there to be used by rotating units. They get a lot of use and are quite beat up. Most are hand-me-down early M1A1s. Every time I was at NTC the camo patterns on the tanks there varied greatly. They may have been painted to test various desert paint schemes. In actual units the tanks are either overall desert sand or NATO 3-color.
ARENGCA
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Arizona, United States
Joined: February 13, 2002
KitMaker: 382 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 02:52 AM UTC
Does anyone know where I can find the patterns for the NATO 3-color schemes? I have been trying to find the Army pub that is supposed to describe them (TM43-0139) but this appears to be one of those not-secret-but-no-one-is-allowed-to-see-it pubs that the Army uses. I can't find it anywhere on the net.

I need the schemes for the M113-series, M1-series, and the HMMWVs. I have partials of each of these, but not the whole patterns.

Can anyone help?
ARENGCA
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Arizona, United States
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Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 02:56 AM UTC
After looking at the pic, that appears to be the standard 3-color pattern, done in desert colors. I don't know if that is authorized or standard practice, or if it is just a local job.

Also note that, under the dust/dirt, all of the roadwheels are green. All replaced at some time? Or is that the original color of the whole tank, and the roadwheels were just not painted when the rest of the tank was painted? Hmmmm....
GeneralFailure
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European Union
Joined: February 15, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 03:20 AM UTC

Dead ringer !

Ha !

The guy on the left on top of the M1 looks soooo much like me. I thought I could try a little trick on my wife and I just made her believe it's a picture from my army days longtime ago. And guess what : it fooled her !

In fact he doesn't look like me when I was in the army, but like I look today. I wore glasses back then... It could never fool any of my friends, though. THey would be looking at the hardware instead of the soldiers, and notice that the Belgian owns nothing that comes close to looking like an M1...).

Whoever this guy is, next time he's around these places we must get a beer together... !

I'll show it to my colleagues tomorrow. I wonder if they can be fooled as easily...

Haha !

Jan



GeneralFailure
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European Union
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Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 03:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Does anyone know where I can find the patterns for the NATO 3-color schemes? I have been trying to find the Army pub that is supposed to describe them (TM43-0139) but this appears to be one of those not-secret-but-no-one-is-allowed-to-see-it pubs that the Army uses. I can't find it anywhere on the net.

I need the schemes for the M113-series, M1-series, and the HMMWVs. I have partials of each of these, but not the whole patterns.

Can anyone help?


I think you need another manual : TB43-0209
You'll probably find not only the manual, but truckloads of pics of those three vehicle types in NATO colors, too.

Happy hunting... !

Jan

ARENGCA
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Arizona, United States
Joined: February 13, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 03:37 AM UTC
So far the only TB43-0209 I could find gives the 4-color (MERDC) schemes for only a few vehicles, and none of them are the M1, M2/3, or HMWWV. It does give the M113, if I remember right (spent most of yesterday eve looking on the net, so memory is hazy).

Perhaps you have found a more current version?
GeneralFailure
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European Union
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Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 04:21 AM UTC

The four color MERDC scheme was indeed in TB43 0209... in 1976.
A newer version with NATO 3 color scheme came out in the early ninenties. Most vehicle types are in there, so I'm sure the three popular types you're looking for must be too.
I KNOW the M113 is in there, since I used the reference.

There's probably someone on this forum who can mail you a copy, or who knows where to find it on the web...

Jan

Ranger74
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Tennessee, United States
Joined: April 04, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 06:55 AM UTC
IIRC, the vehicles now come from the factory with the 3-color paint scheme applied. We have no reason to paint them, anymore at unit level, unlike the old days when they showed up in base color and the crews painted them with appropriate 4-color scheme. Plus, the CARC paint must be done in and envrionmentally approved facility. The new vehicles we have received have all been factory painted, even the "new-old" rebuilt HUMMVS that have recently arrived at my reserve center were freshly repainted when they arrived. It just makes it harder to find the technical bulletin to which you allude.
MAD_DUCK
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Alabama, United States
Joined: March 05, 2002
KitMaker: 434 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 01:48 PM UTC
OK,I CAN"T STAND IT!!!! Here is my secret link to all your NATO camo panting needs:
http://www.logsa.army.mil/etms/data/A/015165.pdf " TARGET="_blank"> http://www.logsa.army.mil/etms/data/A/015165.pdf

This is TM 43-209 its has 407 pages of info on painting the NATO Camo and lots of good drawing for the patterens

you can also get TMs,TB, and LOs for almost any vehicle the Army has at:
https://www.logsa.army.mil

Note if you don't have a DSL connection it my take awhile to save the PDF file but it is better to have it on your hard drive becouse once it is down loaded you can "flip" throught the pages faster.
Hope this helps
Vince
Cullman AL
m60a3
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Georgia, United States
Joined: March 08, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 08:20 PM UTC
Vince,

Thanks so much for posting the link....I know what I am doing to waste my workday today!
just a correction on the link, it's http: not https:.
ARENGCA
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Arizona, United States
Joined: February 13, 2002
KitMaker: 382 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 08:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text

just a correction on the link, it's http: not https:


Nope. https:// is correct. Most US Army websites are converting to SSL (Secure Socket Layer) which adds the 's' to the address. Something about encryption, and allowing user password access, etc. I don't understand it, but most Army websites have a redirect screen at the old http:// address, now.

Returning to the original question...THANK YOU!!!! Everyone. I was sure that one of this very learned group would be able to put me on to what I needed, and MAD_DUCK/Vince came through for me (us!). You guys are incredible. Great models, great info, great advice, and really great people. This hobby is a lot more fun when there are others out there who can help, and comiserate (sp?), and just basically understand why. So, thanks.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Monday, May 06, 2002 - 12:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Also note that, under the dust/dirt, all of the roadwheels are green. All replaced at some time? Or is that the original color of the whole tank, and the roadwheels were just not painted when the rest of the tank was painted? Hmmmm....
We stopped painting road wheels when the NATO 3-color camouflage patterns came into play. Not much sense in it since they get covered with mud and dust immediately. They could probably be pink and it wouldn't be noticed after a few minutes in a field manuever. Same reason why HMMWV and other wheels remain black.
ARENGCA
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Arizona, United States
Joined: February 13, 2002
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 267 posts
Posted: Monday, May 06, 2002 - 01:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text

We stopped painting road wheels when the NATO 3-color camouflage patterns came into play. Not much sense in it since they get covered with mud and dust immediately. They could probably be pink and it wouldn't be noticed after a few minutes in a field manuever. Same reason why HMMWV and other wheels remain black.


Ahhhh!...I learn something on this board every day. I knew about the black HMMWV wheels, which makes sense since the frame is usually black too.

MAD_DOG, I got the two TMs and they are just what I needed. Thanks for the help.
MAD_DUCK
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Alabama, United States
Joined: March 05, 2002
KitMaker: 434 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 06, 2002 - 01:30 AM UTC
I'm glad I could help. Someone posted that link in RMS months ago, I suprised that it didn't catch like wild fire, its too handy not to have.

Vince
MAD_DUCK (AFLAC!!)
penpen
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Hauts-de-Seine, France
Joined: April 11, 2002
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Posted: Monday, May 06, 2002 - 02:49 AM UTC
That pdf is absolutely impressive !
I think I'll just have to start modelling modern Us armor...
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Monday, May 06, 2002 - 03:13 AM UTC
I think you guys would be amazed at how little we think about camouflage patterns. Unless you unit is supposed to have desert tan vehicles and a green NATO colored one appears, not much thought is put into the pattern. If a vehicle is banged up and needs touch up, it'll be done by hand. If a green hood is replaced on a 3-color truck, chances are it will stay like that until the second coming. Many of my fellow servicemen can attest to seeing forest green Hummer parts on 3-color vehicles. Sometimes the operator may try to add some black and brown to match the truck's pattern, but often it will just stay that way. Same with fenders and sand skirts on the tanks or tail gates on big trucks. Bumper numbers will be added as soon as possible, but that's about it.
m1garand
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Washington, United States
Joined: February 08, 2002
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Posted: Monday, May 06, 2002 - 03:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I think you guys would be amazed at how little we think about camouflage patterns. Unless you unit is supposed to have desert tan vehicles and a green NATO colored one appears, not much thought is put into the pattern. If a vehicle is banged up and needs touch up, it'll be done by hand. If a green hood is replaced on a 3-color truck, chances are it will stay like that until the second coming. Many of my fellow servicemen can attest to seeing forest green Hummer parts on 3-color vehicles. Sometimes the operator may try to add some black and brown to match the truck's pattern, but often it will just stay that way. Same with fenders and sand skirts on the tanks or tail gates on big trucks. Bumper numbers will be added as soon as possible, but that's about it.


We had CUCV's with burgundy/brown fenders, hoods, etc.... And never got painted
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